Sorry to hear that Mod7. We’ll miss you in the Comms Unit!
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As long as they have Employees/Volunteers that actually do work for the department they can be classified as part time employees. I know a few people that are employed part time for some departments and therefore “may” be able to get called out. It’s a fine line to walk and documentation is required.
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What is funny, only the FS was fighting this. All other federal agencies were fine with the original agreement. But since most of the large fire are on mis managed FS lands, they are the boss. Instead of working with other federal guys, we where shut out and our words meant nothing.
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This season , 2021, will show more strain of the decisions being made from cubicles. Staffing the IMT’s has been tough and it will only get worse. A lot of folks are putting up with being forced into the AD world because they didn’t want to let down their teams. I think coming into this year and definitely next year more of us will just stop taking the AD road and just move into a “Real Retirement”. I know once I walk away from AD I won’t be back to the IMT work. I have been in several discussions with people in the same boat and they feel the same. There are also some that were pushed into being an AD that refuse to roll out in a manager position, pay just isn’t worth it. While I am talking about pay levels, how is it that the FS/FEDS can get away with not paying OT? I know there was legislation years ago but it is just wrong that they do not follow federal labor laws on OT.
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I am not retired LG and I refused any federal request that was offered to me last season. Unfortunately many local gov departments in California will no longer support the federal mission in any form. Unfortunately the USFS doesn’t want to pay their bills and the citizens pay the price. There is common ground somewhere some bean counters just need to find it.
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I am a fed with the DoD in Ca and we can’t roll on Fed fire ether. We use to full under the CFAA but have been removed. We supported members on IMT’s and would send out resources on strike teams, task forces, or single resources. Now because of the feds we have a hard time sending people out and have been completely shut out of strike team or task force assignments. This is because we could be reassigned to a fed fire and the GACC’s don’t what to have to deal with us messing that up. All the Reservation fire departments are in the same boat.
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The Forest Service is just screwing everything up and they don’t seem to care. It is only a matter of time before they sink their own ship.
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This makes you wonder if the USFS will need to reconsider their CFAA position.
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We are already talking about shortages at the team level due to different issues. CFAA agreement, Feds being shortstaffed so not allowing their employees to leave their normal positions, local agencies having staffing issues of their own, etc. I think something is going to have to change with the CFAA agreement at some point. If we have a season that’s anything like last season, burnout is going to come early for some and that will reduce the ability for some to sustain all season. I know last year, many LG agencies were stretched thin with all the activity and we saw many that restricted their members from going out as they were tired and dealing with other staffing issues such as vacation/workers comp/sick leave. A lot of good people out there that we can’t access for staffing of critical positions because of the CFAA.
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Current Cfaa agreement removed a lot of overhead responders out of the system. Hundreds of years of experience vaporized. Now that burden shift to LGs who have local jurisdictional responsibilities that are of course a priority. Some fed agencies got the one thing they wanted out of cfaa negotiations. However they did not think this through. Now they have to live with that. Reap what you sow.
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I appreciate everyone’s perception of their reality on this one. But an agreement is meant to be reciprocal and the last version of the CFAA was very lopsided. Leave the Feds for footing the bill for everything. The Feds are simply trying to realign the CFAA so it is a reciprocal agreement. Unfortunately there are a lot of departments that looked at CFAA was a cash cow! Good, right, or indifferent we need to come together as a fire service and stop the us vs them mentality! The us vs them mentality is killing the fire service!
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You sited CFMA but did you mean CFAA?
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Yes I stand corrected
I should preface… this is no way a dig towards LG… but there is a broker between LG and the Feds that has been fostering the lopsided agreement… OES!
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CFAA provides an avenue for CALFIRE and Fed Agencies to obtain assistance from local government fire departments for state and federal incidents. It’s not used to import feds into the City of Downey for the next long term mega fire on Main St. Although the Act is referenced within the agreement it certainly will never be reciprocal or “unlopsided”. Never intended to be.
The overhead recently lost over the past year (for the record I am not one of them) had a rate lower than most other departments, which didn’t help to lower costs, moreover it has increased costs. OES does not set local government salary rates. OES is not a broker.
This thread isn’t an us vs them thread. Far from it. This thread outlined the pros and cons of the what the decision makers were doing and saying.
Finally, some may say losing highly qualified and experience responders who had a consistently high level of availability, and whose pay was in alignment or lower than other departments is a good thing. I don’t. Keep I’m mind many of these responders still mobilize, however to only CALFIRE incidents. A few of them have expressed to me they miss going to Fed fires and seeing old friends. However they also say they appreciate how calfire values their experience, treats them and welcomes them into the incident.
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Is your Agency letting you go and are they getting full reimbursement?
Yes they are and we are getting full reimbursement.
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It comes down to Dollars & Cents. We all know the Feds have some FF making less than California Min Wage and that they are having a hiring and retention issue. This just isn’t a FF or Overhead problem, but the entire system is breaking/broken. The divide between CF/FS/LG/OES is only getting worse not better.
I just worked on a project about water tenders.
CF Type 2 1,000-2499 gal
CF Type 1 2500+ Gal
FS Type 2 2500-3999 gal
FS Type 1 4,000+ gal
The CF Type 1 WT makes $59/day more for single operator
While the FS Type 2 WT makes $211.60 more for 2 operators
FOR THE EXACT SAME WATER TENDER with a VIPR agreement and HEMS agreement. A similar FS tender Hired on a EERA incident only agreement Will make approx 10% less.
My point is this, the FS, R5 is out of touch with reality in California. Minimum wage is on its way to $15/hr(1/1/22) then it will go up yearly the % of COLA. This is only driving the cost of EVERYTHING UP. I get what the Federal Agencies are trying to do with cost controls. However, cutting off you arm to feed yourself only leaves you with 1 arm.
Elections have consequences. What we are seeing is a direct result of said elections.
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