Yes sir it is
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I was the DIVS on the Trailhead with you guys. I had lost my wedding ring.
Hope you are well. Iām not in Ops anymore. Ground Support on the team. At least for nowā¦
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Yes the FS fire series has needed an overhaul for decades. I just saw something on the TV about Congress taking the huge disparity in pay and Forestry Tech vs a true fire series up. As a retired USFS Forestry Tech starting my career in 1973,I have seen this movie many times before. It would be nice, if this time, Congress actual does address the issue with a positive out come for our current firefighting workforce.
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Iām with Hump, FS has alot of work to do. We would probably agree that there are current, former and retired employees with more passion and factual truths to speak without slandering anyone else or dragging specific modules through the mud. The FS folks who wear boots for a living find plenty of our own flaws and are quick to rectify actual situations similar to those that were fictionally spoken of in this worthless article. Unfortunately nobody who currently makes policy decisions at the Feds wears boots for a living and if they did it was typically short lived and a long time forgotten. I keep telling the boys, believe it when you see it in your bank account and on your T/A. Until then, letās keep cutting.
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Along time ago, it seemed most Forest Supervisors seemed to have been a smokejumper( or at least some FF) in their career path.
The article woke up Vallejo.
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It was woke up during the FWFSA
days .(google it), but we lost. My hope, in this newest effort to change the plight of forestry techs, is the internet, and maybe the ability to daylight the situation. I wish everyone good luck.
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So if this has been happening how come nobody has taken the time to take pictures and videos to make it known to the public since pretty much everyone out there has a camera in their pocket.
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I personally have not taken video or pictures however there have been plenty of then taken. They are being sent too the proper officials. And hopefully something comes from it and people are held accountable.
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Pictures of hotshots burning? I look forward to reading about this investigation into these folks being held accountable for fulfilling their operational assignments.
I knew the fed and cal fire staffing issues would bring up problems. But the biggest seems to be the amount of resources thrown out to these fires with little operational experience or worse what we seem to have here are folks who have little but believe they know everything that goes down. From their perspective maybe things arenāt perfect, well they rarely are. We really need to push hard to right this ship and get the right resources that understand the situations in place.
I have been part of burn operations that I wish I didnāt do.
I have decided to not burn at times I should have.
These crews for the most part have walked and scouted the lines and talked at length with ops and branch and division and sometimes things arenāt perfect but you do the best you can.
Every fire season i ever worked we showed up on day shift and see a firing operation from night before and found maybe not enough depth or a dirty burn. We would recognize the potential trouble and chase spots all day when wind surfaces. Itās part of being on fires.
Or had to suck terrible suffocating smoke holding burns under not ideal conditions.
Burning close to structures happens all the time. There should be close coordination with everyone. At times those do fail, as they do at other times in life.
For context im a former fed. I left because of my family, money and burn out physically and mentally.
I still help try and push for better fed pay and classification because I care about these folks. I know what they do and go through and hard decisions they make thst have terrible life altering decisions if they go wrong. Even if they are right the landscape is changed for our lifetime. Itās easy to arm chair these folks especially if you donāt get the big picture or fully understand the complexity of the situation.
Now that Iām working for another company I can see and appreciate how much these folks do with and for so little. I have never seen a group do so much with so little. How used they are and then tossed out. So it pisses me off when I read this.
Maybe folks should take pictures and start investigating all the $$ wasted on big engines sitting around fires all the time??? Plenty of pictures of that.
See how easy it is to do this?
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Same with LG strike teams sitting in lawn chairs, setting up putting greens and sleeping in their trucks. All questionable tactics.Wildland fire requires a little more effort.
As #Fire1300 stated above, I hope you have photos to back up your accusations and have personally reported them to the incident IC. This type of broad accusation and team bashing and inflammatory remarks is not acceptable and should not be allowed to remain posted and as an LG captain I have never seen this type of action on the line from any LG departments in all my years. If you are referring to in camp down time, that is their prerogative. Mods please remove these type of generalized unprofessional comments.
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CCFC time to take the blinders off. Iām LG and have seen a lot and heard a lot of complaints about assignments. Nobody is perfect
I am just stating if some one is going to state remarks about an LG strike team doing unprofessional actions on the incident then single them out, donāt include the masses because all LG strike teams are not like that, In 30 yrs I can tell you ours have never done that. So are you agreeing that LG strike teams get the bad rap but all Fed, and State, hand crews and engines are all professional all the time ?
Totally agree, some ST have their act together and do what ever is asked of them. Some are just out of their element and knowledge base. Iāve worked with all types of resources from all different agencies. Some kick ass and others not so much. There is a large turnover in the fire service right now along with the knowledge of Wildland firefighting . Sometimes it depends on whoās on duty when the ST goes out and what you get. Not everyone wants to be there.
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Should the Hotshots have started the burn further away from the structures so it ran at them?
It was tough out there scouting, attempting to complete, prep, plumb with your hose, fire and Initially hold every structure on the division. Now we would like to discuss the tactics behind the action? Where were you when we could use your tools, saw and crew to help with all of this? Drop point OO? I donāt remember a single structure being saved by any engine crew who allowed t he fire to run at them. In fact, anyone who employes the tactic of waiting in running head fire until the structure is impacted is simply being reactive and has significantly less chance for successful structure defense and ultimately self survival. My best guess is that as a holding resource, sometimes briefings are quick and in dire situations can involve not a whole lot more than the basics of LCES, objectives and if fire goes into the green, get it. I assure you that divs, branch, and Ops were all in the loop before a torch was tipped.
Alot of things can be āseen,ā but not understood. Its also easy to take pictures and report things out of context. Combine those 2 factors and we have this attack ad.
Even if there was an investigation, Hotshots would be found within scope and having performed with the best of intentions.
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Mod Note: We are better than this finger-pointing and bickering that this has begun turning into. Donāt you think that this is one of the outcomes, the author of the story was attempting to have happen? At the very least a side benefit?
Letās please return this discussion back to the article or move on to more constructive topics and let this fall by the wayside, where it belongs.
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Shame on you for not sharing your concerns with anyone involved at the time of the occurrence. In regards to picking up spots on the dozer lineā¦. Sounds like you were doing exactly what is expected as a holding resource. Shuffle through your thin slide show and inform me of a major incident where you were personally apart of a firing operation that had little to no spots. Why do you think there are always holding forces built into the planā¦