I appreciate you clearing up your earlier statement. You articulated what you were trying to say earlier very well. I do believe reguardless of what agency, we all have the same mission at the end of the day. You compaired the CF and FS mission statement, but doctorine always wins in the end. When it comes down to it all firefighters want the same outcome. Protect life and property, but most of all everyone comes home in the end.
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Sadly due to training requirements (QA/QC) the FS stops at the infrastructure. Yes, both agencies will provide medical treatment for a patient. However, CF gets dispatched and carries the BLS gear for patients other than employees. Additionally, CF is regulated by the local LEMSA and has someone in place for QA/QC and “should” have EPCR capability. The FS has neither EPCR or QA/QC in place.
Additionally, both agencies will do structure defense and save homes. However a fire gets established in an attic and an interior attack is required. CF employees are trained and tested (QA/QC) and under a RPP program and will make an interior push and extinguish the fire. The FS will not.
In NO WAY am I degrading the FS. It’s just not in their training, job description or purview
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I wonder if there have been any scientific studies with reprod and how it influences fire behavior. I have been in areas where the Reforestation Treatment has been so thick you almost need a headlamp to navigate the stand in the afternoon. It is one thing to seed bumper crops of corn but planting high yield trees per acre, for subsequent harvesting, got to be a factor.
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I/We should avoid the arm chair QB thing, it’s difficult to do so when some of us have experienced in one way or another something like this.
Maybe there needs to be set criteria for monitoring a fire, something a bit more than it’s in the wilderness and there for we are going to monitor.
I have no idea what decision matrix was used by managers to make their decision, FF safety sure, I get that one, however that should always be a consideration, we insert folks all the time into some very rough areas, we just do.
It was stated that the fire had a low probability of moving beyond it’s natural containment, if that’s the case then have a plan to keep it there, a few bucket drops here and there during the heat of the day.
We are in PL-5 and maybe we should take a hard look at our monitor incidents when we get to Pl-4, there are very few areas in the country that I would feel comfortable letting a fire be managed for resource benefits, climate change, prolonged drought, lack of resources, etc
Back in the day if a fire moved a mile or 2 in a burning period that was impressive, now fire move 5+ miles routinely, times have changed and we need to charge our management practices as well….
And I for one do not suggest that folks need to be fired, it’s a decision that was made with the tools that they have in the tool box, maybe we just need to retool a bit….
END……
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I believe the bigger question is: have we done enough with teaching settlers on how to live with the current fire environment? If you live in the wildland, especially in this era of extreme fire environments as a homesteader you must accept and respect fire. Acknowledge that it will continue to be uncompromising. If you want to live under the mountain where the dragon lives you must take personal responsibility on making your domestic livable through its feeding time. If you have done all that and still loose your house, just know you did the best that you could but the odds have been increasingly stacking against you over the past decades.
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Pyro… excellent writeup of the fuels and fire behavior…but doesn’t this fire behavior contradict the USFS statements about fire creating a more fire resilient forest? Wildfire without followup just creates more available fuel as you noted in the Storrie and Chips burns.
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Hah, that sounds like its own thread!
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I don’t think you’ll find anyone in the agency arguing that widespread, high severity, high mortality fire creates resilient forests
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The Federal Land Agencies insist on trying to “manage” fires during peak fire season in the midst of a long term drought. Even when they go “Full Suppression” many times it is in a modified sense…wilderness rules etc. How many “managed” fires have escaped control in the past several fire seasons ? I suspect one reason they continue this practice is there are no repercussions. Not every fire escape is an Act of God. I think we should hold the responsible people to account. So yes…I think they advocate hot , stand replacing wildfire to create the mosaic they want.
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- Do you believe a boatload of unskilled labor could have handled this from the get go, or based upon all my questions I have listed should I not be a d…bag and admit this requires skilled labor.
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I just saw it and shared thinking it was relevant to this discussion. I personally think you all are awesome (and having watched this forum for a few years now you all are where the brains are too.) Lots of hard earned wisdom here.
Nothing against you. 
I just think that guy is a tool and a hypocrite who does nothing for his constituents. It was obvious that the Tamarack fire would be investigated or as someone previously posted litigated (if it hasn’t started already), he just likes jumping on the bandwagon to make it seem like he gives a ****.
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Agreed. I have written a few editorials about some of his “ideas” concerning the back country.
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McQlintock is a about as knowledgeable as a bag of rocks. He’s a supporter of the big lie and proved this by lying about the skill sets of Wildland firefighters.
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And the same could be said for any other politician from either party.
He said what he said, he was an idiot for saying it, let’s not get into that discussion because we can pull stupid statements from both parties that wont change a blessed thing.
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At least he made an effort. That’s more than I see from most politicians
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This is very well put and yet very intense. As much as what PG&E is going to do is at lest a step in the right direction, what you way make me curious as too how Response Centers and or whomever runs the ship in terms of Deployment are going to incorporate all of these wholistic factors into Response Strategies. Essentially we need to turn Response strategies upside down and integrate big time biological/ecological issues. Which are based on Analyses as well. And oh, what are Responses? Based on models of x number of factors at the current time. Sure, beat me up, I’m just an unemployed GIS freak, but at the same time this does excite me and wish I could be in the same rooms and seminars and what not where this stuff gets talked about. Universities and institutions need to incorporate not just the Choir but those that are on the front lines–i.e. the CalFIRES and the Response Personnel. This is not a team effort if there are two ends of the building that aren’t speaking to each other.
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Tamarack Fire: Before it grew into out-of-control blaze, Forest Service decided to let it burn - CNN
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Like the NEW SQF start. Accountability and responsibility.
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