66 Hour Work Week

California & Hawaii Hotlist Questions and Discussion
#640

You called it.

Between the loss of the $260, OPEB increasing 0.5%, healthcare premiums increasing 10%, inflation of 4%, and whatever else, it looks like the new MOU needs to bring in a 15+% increase on top of offsetting the loss of 24 hours EDWC just to break even. I’m just not seeing that as realistic.

Maybe part of it is the wear and tear of being on day 25+, but it’s hard not to feel pretty defeated right now.

Really hoping the details of the MOU are all they’re hyped up to be once it’s released.

5 Likes
#641

If the State gives you 3% of what they contribute for your PERS into your salary and you now contribute that percentage into your retirement, you now get 3% more in retirement. It’s now PERS’able income. You loose some money in taxes but your OT base pay went up 3%. That is why some departments make more base pay but pay more retirement contribution!

#643

The earlier post (#581, which only 4 people liked) said all classes will get general salary increases through the life of the contract. It also contains the following:

In the coming days, we will provide you with additional information and explanations regarding the new MOU including detailed information on salary adjustments and pay incentives. This will enable you to thoroughly review the terms and prepare for the upcoming ratification vote.

Unless there is more detailed information floating around out there, you don’t even know how big or how small, or how many or how few the GSIs are in the TA. You have absolutely no details, but you’re voting no regardless. That’s the spirit!

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#644

As with any contract you will nor know the final outcome until it’s ratified. Many times in the past things beyond salary that were important to us and ‘promised’ for a yes vote ended up gone in the end. So called last minute giveaways. I’ve seen it time and time again over the last 40 years. Just how the machine works. All you can do is vote with the info you have and hope for the best. You will never be presented with it ‘all’ until it’s all over.

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#645

The last DC increase or is there a new one

#647

There’s the entertainment value you find in a confidence game, and there is your pay. These are mutually exclusive values. Good luck.

#648

My opinion is this. It will be near to impossible to research and review every facet of the new contract. So my advice is this. Pick the items that are most important to you and effect your position. I know it all affects your position but I hope you get the point of my statement.

The union is doing a much better job at putting information out. They obviously heard our wants of more information and situation updates. I personally appreciate how they have adapted to this request. It shows a willingness to listen to the membership and respond. Right now our district reps are working to understand, the details. A suggestion for this is to zoom the information sessions and record them for membership to review. This way, the process is transparent and membership can pick up information that perhaps some reps are just better at explaining.

Inform yourself and vote.

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#650

Great conversation and points across the board. However, as a person nearing the end of my time what matters to me is the bottom dollar. Contributions and costs are going up inflation has gone through the roof and I am supposed to be excited about no loss in compensation. I understand with our changing work force I will again be in the minority but someone had to say it. This is not a great deal

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#651

I can see a lot of people near the end of their career feeling that way, but to be honest, for the future of this department to expand the way we’re expecting it to… a workweek reduction is vital. Getting to a 56hr work week is vital. It may not line our pockets immediately, but what it does is give the organization a chance. If you are here for more than the next 5 years, then you know it’s going to be crucial that we overcome obstacles related to recruitment and retention. Asking for big pay increases is a heavy lift, but so is the work week reduction. We can only do one at a time and I’m sorry the timing isn’t favorable to all. Not trying to discount your opinion at all, just stating mine.

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#652

This is valid. I get it’s for the greater good. Fact is no matter when you retire, the folks still working will earn more than you. Hopefully all have set aside money over the years and not blown through it all on divorces, HD trucks, travel trailers and in general living beyond our earnings. What our job does allow us to do is, do something else after we retire. Work another job or do the things you wanted or never had the time to do. In all reality, the money we earn never pays for the lost time from our families, that’s a deal we made with ourselves.

I know when I leave, I’ll likely have to work another job, as I will be on a fixed income, but hopefully you dumped enough monthly into your deferred comp to offset this, because one thing is true, the system is not set up to help you, it’s set up to make money off of you. Yep that retirement fund is well aware many of us will die before we suck it dry.

Live your career how you want, just know that it ends. Enjoy it and know that many smart and respected people stay where they are because they love thier jobs. Not all of us want to be AC’s. That job is not for us, and many of us don’t want to end our career miserable just trying to get that little extra money. We all have choices, and as you near the end, hopefully that younger version of yourselves had the discipline to see this day coming. Because it happens to us all. The job is eventually over, and you will be just like everyone else. No one will have cared what you did, besides your family, and adjusting to life after fire will be just that, an adjustment… in a variety of ways.

But hey… enjoy it now.

3 Likes
#653

There isn’t a contract in the world that is going to make everyone happy. I have been with the department for almost 20 years. If this contract gets me more time with my family and I can take a little bit more money home with me then I am good. If you need more money, promote before you retire. Climb the ladder and maximize your worth. I live a good life and there is no reason any of us can’t with what the department is providing. Could it be better, yes. Is the sky falling, no. This contract gets us closer to where we need to be. It’s only a two year contract. We are in a rough time economically and our money doesn’t go as far but it isn’t just us, it is everyone. We chose to work for this department and if it isn’t working out for some of us maybe moving on will help you out. The union is doing their best. If you think they aren’t than opt out and keep your 140 bucks. I’m tired of the doom and gloom and misinformation. Wait for the facts and make your decision. If you aren’t happy be more involved and make a difference.

6 Likes
#654

Just a question, you say this is not a great deal but from everything I have seen there has been no info released so far in regards to the total amount for the GSI that is supposed to happen yearly under the new contract. I am just curious how you say inflation, OPEB and other stuff has gone up, which is all true I know, but to say this is a bad deal without having all the details in regards to how much of a yearly GSI the new contract proposes seems a little presumptive to me. I have seen things saying the new contract would have to be x% to make up for it and how that “isn’t feasible” or “able to be be seen as realistic” but without knowing or having the correct info seems like some folks minds are already made up that this isn’t good without seeing all the facts and info. Maybe we should all hold off on saying this is a great deal and the best thing since sliced bread OR this is a bad deal and a mistake to vote yes on until we see all the facts and information in regards to the new contract? Trying to present both sides here and play devil’s advocate and just hoping for folks to keep an open mind and not be stuck in the mud for either a yes OR no vote and wait to get the details and information and do their research for themselves and decide before just rushing to a decision either way based on incomplete info.

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#655

I do not have a dog in this hunt. That being said, I find this conversation very interesting. Y’all wanting to get to a 56 hour work week, less expensive medical , compensation for a variety of reasons all of which I applaud you for obtaining. I just find it all very interesting when I look back and think of my days with the California Division of Forestry, where we purchased our own work clothes, worked a 120 hour a week schedule, made $435 a month before food deduction of $ 65.00. We slept in the dirt on fires and if lucky we ate off a steam table brought out from who knows where ( or cared ). Otherwise it was C-rats from the military surplus ( my oldest was 1951, in 1970). Toilets meant whatever napkins you had left, a shovel and a walk into nature. Being alert for poison oak or ivy. :roll_eyes:
Anyway, interesting and entertaining. Good Luck to Y’all in your future’s !

11 Likes
#656

Ha, and maybe a fifth night release if you were Lucky. SCBA in the old radio box on top of the hose bed or tank. Turnouts and boots that did not fit two sets of them per engine. Then when it rained the Captain would tell you take off for a day or two to burn your CTO for they would not have to pay you overtime when Fire Season ended. Back then we had an Employees Assocation not Union. When you did get a Hotel and go to a resturant it was a big deal.

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#657

Arff and ffviking,

Thank you so much for the perspective. I see countless employees with less than 5 years complaining about the union and how bad our working conditions are in comparison to some select local gov. Most of them have no idea what we’ve come from! But their perspective is not to be silenced as well, as it’s a precursor to the recruitment and retention issues we are trying to address.

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#658

I find it very interesting that bargaining is complete, we have a tentative agreement with CalHR yet we’re not going to get any details until the reps go to Sacramento next week. What reason other than carefully crafting the message to be passed to the membership would L2881 not release the details. I guess the union thinks we are all children who need to be spoon fed information instead of reading the details of the contract ourselves. I believe the detail’s of the TA should be released and we should let the chips fall where they may.

When we do get the details, everyone need to read the TA for themselves. Don’t relay on the story you are sold. Or else, like our last contract, you will be told we aren’t loosing anything while our OPEB was changed from fixed to variable rate, which can and most likely will go up annually.

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#659

It went down 1.0% last contract and can only rise by 0.5%. So far we’re still -0.5% from where it started.

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#660

Because part of the release is about narrative and getting ahead of the negative. It’s politics 101.

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#661

This was a requirement for ALL BARGAINING UNITS
No different than the medical stipend. The difference was other bargaining units took a lump sum 1-time amount and ours was monthly.

Personally speaking, I will read the new TA cover to cover several times to understand the give and take that has occurred. I agree that not releasing the details till the leadership is briefed is shall we say “peculiar” at best. But let the process continue, educate yourself then let’s ask questions.

2 Likes
#662

We still need to vote to ratify. Delegates are going up to get you guys the correct information to be able to answer your questions. Be patient and wait for the correct info to come out. There are very few members on the bargaining team. Let them get the info out to each of the districts before you guys jump to conclusions. If you don’t like what they are proposing then vote no. Speculating does nothing but stir the pot for all the naysayers and union haters.

3 Likes