Continuing the discussion from HI-Maui-Lahaina ???:
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Can you please check your messages? I replied to you directly and would like to continue the discussion and resolve the issues you brought up outside of public posts.
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Absolutely zero flak should be directed at IMT_Geek. He has 110% helped push his former federal IMT as well as IMT’s/ICS in general forward in their evolution. His presence on the command staff and as an instructor is/was invaluable.
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Ordering from neighbor first before pushing up has always been a thing. And neighbors can negotiate price on the fly, even do it for free. As far as FEMA ordering a team, Is FEMA the ordering point, or does it still lie with LG?
I am well aware of IMT_Geeks background as well as his CHARACTER.
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bootstrap is entirely correct. Your comments, sir, are out of line. IMT Geek has been an asset to the “Teams” and this discussion board. I totally agree that the CalFire presence will be an asset far more beneficial than a Fed team for a number of reasons.
As for costs, a drop in the bucket compared to the pain and misery this slow moving human tragedy will cause.
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You guys are being ridiclous how care’s what team goes to where as long as people are getting help. You guy act like this is new Cal Fire has sent many of teams to other states and done plenty with FEMA. Sounds like some of you have some personal beef with other agencies and people on here keep that to yourselves or private message them.
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WHO CARE’S WHAT THE RATE IS.
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Having several friends that live in Lahaina, I am appalled and embarrassed at what is being posted on here. They dont care which patch is there they feel abandoned and need help in the fastest manner available. Grow up and know they have access to this site like everyone else.
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Desertrat, I have been trying to get you to answer my direct message so others don’t have to see the thread.
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IF you read my IMT training web page, please let me know how I am trying to make money off of it. I do not present classes or exercises to anyone - I am done with all that. I am finishing up trying to move the Federal governments All-Hazards IMT program forward. Please read that again. I am a technical editor and an advisor on incident management.
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Please read my post about the Emergency Management Assistance Compact (EMAC) method of ordering. This is a contract ratified by all 50 states and districts. It has absolutely nothing to do with the CFMA (CFAA?) or any other Calfire - State, local, or Federal process. Please read up about that because it isn’t monkey business. It is the way states who do not have access to IROC or NWCG order resources. It is one of several methods.
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The EMAC process is a proper system. It is used every day to move resources across the USA. It is a state to state contract paid for by the requesting state. It has nothing to do with the CFAA that I think you are referring to.
Again, this can be a beneficial and fruitful conversation if you choose.
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Agree…not cool.
The decision as to what team to order is up to the AHJ. In this case the state of Hawaii. They made the decision to ask for a state team… and they get to do that.
CF teams are a mix of LG and state personnel so the cost thing is a little weird to me… what is the difference? And to be honest when all of this is over probably budget dust. As far as support for the the team or any team… I would hope that the health and safety of the team members no matter who they are would be the first thing on everyone’s mind. I love camping as much as the next person but after an 18 hour day it does not seem as much fun.
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The order was through EMAC, so the requesting state pays the providing state. It is a negotiated contract.
Check it out if you are not aware. Hawaii ordered, California is providing. That was an agreement between the two governors by themselves and outside of any Federal involvement.
EMAC has been ratified by U.S. Congress (PL 104-321) and is law in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands. EMAC’s Members can share resources from all disciplines, protect personnel who deploy, and be reimbursed for mission-related costs.
https://www.emacweb.org/
AHJs/states that do not have access to the wildland fire IROC must use this as their method of obtaining assistance. It can also be used in place or in conjunction with IROC
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NaterD15, someone would have to submit a freedom of information act request to obtain it because it is a negotiated contract. That means Hawaii asked CA’s governor for help, they talked, decided on an IMT, then they have to review the Request and probably/hopefully, involve the IC’s of the team they are thinking of sending - about what would be needed based on the mission they were being requested for. It is not any type of a cut and dried ordering process but is all negotiated. Wildland fire teams are pretty much protected from this process because of IROC and the NWCG standards for IMTs and positions. This is a completely negotiated process decided on by the governors. It is very common and used every day.
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The order was through EMAC, so the requesting state pays the providing state. It is a negotiated contract.
Check it out if you are not aware. Hawaii ordered, California is providing. That was an agreement between the two governors by themselves and outside of any Federal involvement.
EMAC has been ratified by U.S. Congress (PL 104-321) and is law in all 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands. EMAC’s Members can share resources from all disciplines, protect personnel who deploy, and be reimbursed for mission-related costs.
https://www.emacweb.org/
AHJs/states that do not have access to the wildland fire IROC must use this as their method of obtaining assistance. It can also be used in place or in conjunction with IROC
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Just to chime in, my two cents - sounds like not enough assignments to keep people busy. If everyone was on an assignments would you all be having this issue? We all need to remain calm, what’s been done is done. Time to move on to more productive stuff. Peace to all.
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Retired FPT22 agree completely, not sure this is what this forum is for? As I am up at 1:15 in the morning mobilizing resources to Californias fire which took a real bad turn tonight.
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I completely agree. This negotiation between Govs could have involved a reduced cost or even free assistance. We will probably never know. With the CA Gov’s reported national political ambitions, this makes perfect sense, but good for Lahaina residents either way. God’s speed and do good things
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