Assumption of Risk

California & Hawaii Hotlist Questions and Discussion
#22

One of our planning customers had private resources protecting their properties on the first night of the Glass Fire. During the 2019 Kincade Fire, this customer lost a winery, and many beautiful structures, took tens of millions in losses. Since then, we have done a full hazard assessment and mapping of all of their various properties, made pre-fire maps for them to distribute to firefighters, and helped them plan and implement dozens of acres of fuels work. They pay for a private Type VI engine during fire season, and were able to save a winery and many structures during the Glass Fire. (This wouldn’t have been possible without the fuels work they did up front). They were also tied in with their Division.

Just putting this out there as an example - There is a wide variety of private responders, ranging from a rancher with their own engine, to established contractors with qualified ENGBs and FFs, and equipment that meets VIPR specs (including comms). Not all the privateers are working for insurance companies.

Also, there are shades of gray with ‘firing’. After a fire goes thru, what about cleaning up black off a driveway after the fire has gone thru?

8 Likes
#23

For that matter, what about slinging a shovelful of already burning material from point A to point B to clean up the burn?

4 Likes
#24

That quote is generally referred to as the “normalization of deviance” and generally leads to negative outcomes if the behavior is not corrected.
Remember" the difference between initiative and independent action is a radio transmission"…

2 Likes
#25

When Steve died there was also rouge firing by a CF person that had major impact on the incident

4 Likes
#26

Excellent point and great quote. Thank you.

#27

I agree wholeheartedly that communications, accountability, and seamless integration into the rest of the incident are absolutely essential for any of this private firefighting to work.

4 Likes
#28

Are there any details as to what exactly happened the other day?

#29

I’ve only heard about it on here, and then heard that the private engine at our customer’s winery was ordered into the ICP along with all other private resources.

2 Likes
#30

The road to hell was paved with good intentions, if you don’t communicate your plan with personnel in the area it can cost someone greatly as has been stated and if you couldn’t communicate with line personnel in first place you shouldn’t have been out there. On the oakwood fire a few years back AA unit spotted a CALFIRE engine firing off a dirt road who hadn’t notified anyone, another engine had find them and to get them to stop.

On the creek fire the lakeshore resort owner took it upon himself to “borrow” a huntington lake volly engine and got arrested later claiming he told them what he was doing but no one could verify him telling anyone with the department.

6 Likes
#32

There are so many rules and regulations in California many have argued these rules have created some of the reasons for the fire conditions we are now seeing. Fire insurance for homeowners is going to be the next big issue in Ca. Many of us live in rural areas. By adding more rules to private fire companies is only going to make the cost and availability of homeowners insurance worse. Many insurance companies are leaving California. We need less rules and regulations for them if we are going to have any type of competition for decent rates. Our pay is based on real estate values to some extent. As the insurance companies flee and the costs go higher real estate values will go down. This may affect our pay.

We let the news and social media photographers in the hot zone. The private fire companies should get the same access. Ca. needs all the help it can get for structure protection as many of the local and Cal Fire engines tend to get engaged in rescues and evacations. 911 gets flooded for requests for people being trapped and that diverts many of our emergency resources. The private engines only focus on saving “our” homes.

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4 Likes
#33

The press has a constitutional right under the first amendment to be in the fire area as long as they are not impeding firefighting operations. There is no constitutional amendment that gives private firefighters the right to protect private Property. Even thought this is California, and as much as some people in this state don’t like it, the constitution still applies here.

5 Likes
#34
5 Likes