CALFIRE proposed MOU changes

First, two thumbs up and mad props for a well researched and well written piece.

You have my respect and my attention, my friend.

Now down to business…

I have a few concerns with some of your key points. Nothing we can’t figure out, but things that should be discussed, none the less.

I disagree that “the 66 hour work week…is NOT a part of this contract.” It seems pretty clear that it will start November, 2024, although it lacks details. Like I said above, if it’s in the TA, it’s part of the agreement as far as I’ve ever been taught. Even though it will take effect after the expiration of the contract, there is still an agreement that this is what is going to happen. Maybe I don’t understand. Can someone explain how terms that are written in the contract are not part of the contract?

I also find it interesting that the language in the TA posted on the CalHR web site states “the JLMC will begin to meet no later than September 1, 2022.” According to the date the TA was signed, August 24, 2022, that’s a 7 day window for the first meeting to occur and well before any ratification vote. Has this meeting happened? If not, is there already a breech of contract?

This may be, but I will gladly trade the 6.6% to keep my EDWC. In fact, I would go so far as to say I would happily GIVE BACK 6.6% to keep my EDWC. GSIs will come and go, but EDWC will NEVER come back.

I don’t understand your chapter saying that the OPEB is set for the duration of the contract.

The TA clearly reads, “Effective July 1, 2023, the contribution percentages will be adjusted based on the actuarially determined total normal cost…” and can adjust every July 1 thereafter by up to 0.5%.

The contract expires July 1, 2024. It is true that a number of other Bargaining Units have similar language, so maybe I’m the one that doesn’t understand, but the way I read it, there could be TWO adjustments prior to the end of the contract. Please explain where you are seeing something different.

The Legislative Analyst’s Report seems to think it’s likely the state will meet the criteria to back out of the 66.

It reads, “Under the budget agreement adopted in June, the administration’s multiyear estimates beyond the budget window reflect a negative balance in the Special Fund for Economic Uncertainties, the state’s main operating account. Consequently, under these estimates, the budget likely would not have the capacity to absorb this policy change without reductions to other expenditures. Given the heightened economic uncertainty at this time, this provision of the agreement is particularly risky."

As far as I can tell the 66 hour work week may very well just be a mirage on the horizon.

To me, there needs to be a set term for when and how a 66 (or a 56) is going to happen, not just vague terms that the state seems to already have a plan in place to skirt.

Read the LAO report for your self. it’s very informative. Unit 8 (Firefighters) MOU Analysis

I agree. however, it must be said that, regardless of whether we take this TA or not, come 2024, entry level firefighters will be making minimum wage.

Period.

There isn’t any fancy CalHR math that changes this fact.

If we don’t take this deal and only the FFI and maybe the FFII ranks get increases with minimum wage, it will increase compaction. There is no doubt about that.

But, think about it, to me, that almost seems like it would be to 2881’s benefit, as it coils that spring even tighter showing the inequities in CAL FIRE compensation versus local government.

Maybe I’m the odd ball, but that potential scenario doesn’t scare me one bit, especially when compared to the sure thing of losing EDWC.

Please read this again to yourself. “we should see another salary increase”…”If that happens, then we should subsequently see another salary increase”…” then hopefully another adjustment”.

To me, this entire logic is based on hope and a prayer.

Like I said before, after 20+ years with this organization, I have yet to see any unwritten promise, hope, should, or whatever you want to call it actually pan out in future contracts.

What’s on the table today is what’s on the table today.

Bargain for tomorrow on another day.

The FLSA 7k exemption requires a pay period of between 7 and 28 days.

Check it out for yourself https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/whdfs8.pdf.

In order to be exempt from paying overtime after 40 hours for fire suppression personnel, the longest pay period you can have is 28 days. Then you must pay overtime after 53 hours.

Every other fire department in the country has figured out how to work a 56 hour week into a pay period that’s between 7 and 28 days. They had to. It’s the law.

Why the word on the street is that CAL FIRE can’t do that is beyond me.

I appreciate the effort you put in to working out the math. Most people don’t take the time to do that and it shows your work ethic. I respect that.

That said, look at your numbers, they actually seem to disprove your theory.

Your “today” income is $94,609.15.

Your income after the 66 goes into effect in 2024 is $90,689.

Two years later and you’ve lost 5% of your salary…after accounting for the 6.6% GSI…and enduring two years of inflation.

This means YOUR PERSable INCOME will be 5% less in 2 years than it is today and will remain so UNTIL YOU RETIRE.

This is a disaster for anyone who doesn’t retire within 12 months of the 66 taking effect.

I see you’re trying to use the $260 a month to offset the difference. To me, this is a fallacy.

First, the $260 is not PERSable. Period.

Second, the $260 expires at the end of the contract, so it will not continue to offset the 5% reduction in pay into the future.

Third, the $260 is actually our “HERO pay” for COVID. It’s not explained anywhere, but 2881 chose to take the $1,500 in HERO pay that will be paid up front and the remainder of the HERO pay over time instead of a lump sum. Mathematically, this actually works to 2881s advantage, so I’m not complaining about this, but this is the actual reason that the $260 ends at the end of the contract.

If this was truly a great deal, you wouldn’t have to work so hard to “make the numbers perfectly match up”, as you said.

I feel like people are wanting this to be a good deal so badly that they’re willing to forego basic math and common sense in order to justify supporting it.

If it was such a great deal, the numbers would add up using simple math and it would be obvious. Instead people are inventing new trigonometric equations to make it work.

Three band new shiny quarters will never equal an old wrinkled up dollar. There’s no getting around that.

My lack of enthusiasm for this TA is mostly focused around this loss of EDWC.

Had there been a TA with all the other provisions, I probably could have gotten behind it.

Then we could have a separate vote for or against a 66 (or 56) with all the details spelled out ahead of time. Having them bunched together taints the whole package for me.

Meanwhile, my buddy’s local government department got a 3 year deal giving them 18%-that’s 6% a year for each of the 3 years…with no concessions…and they just hired some CAL FIRE folks in their last academy.

If you think people are jumping ship now…just wait.

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Thank you for clarifying.

We may not have to wait until next year…

…lets not forget the Christmas Eve deal of 2016.

Yep…the one for the contract that started 6 months before the previous contract expired.

Ahhh…the memories…

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Here’s 2881’s explanation:

Hero Pay

We initially told the Administration we all deserved $10k for the “hero pay”. The $1500.00 is still coming (unknown timeline) What the hero pay looks like in this contract is $260 per month to medical insurance, not sure how that is actually going to look on our pay stubs but it is not persable income and helps offset the insurance costs. Some asked about the “hero pay” and where was that in this contract, well, there it is. CDCR got a one time $5k payout for the “hero pay”. We negotiated it to be a lasting payout in the amount of $260/month for medical costs. All BU8 employees will receive this incentive regardless if you have medical insurance through the state or not i.e. Coben cash. Over a 2 year contract you’re looking at basic math of $6,240. More than CDCR got in their single pay out. The dept. pays 85% of the total medical insurance costs, we pay the rest; the $260/month will be on top of that 85% not part of the 85%.

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Thank you for the clarification.

Does anyone here really believe that the governor cares about the membership and will do right by us in the next contract?

This governor cares about getting votes. It’s no secret in Sacramento that our membership is largely conservative and does not vote for Newsom. So why would he ever do right by us, knowing that most of us will vote against him.

We were one of only two state unions to file a formal complaint with PERB about the governors Covid test or vaccinate program. Then we publicly did not support him in the recall election.

If there is one think I have learned, you don’t handshake deals from the state.

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So after sitting through a couple of online meetings this is how I understand these OPEB portion. I’m not sure how correct all this is but it can help you guys bring up any further questions as will I.

OPEB calculations are done annually by CALPERS for every program period. These calculations use actuary tables that factor number of employees, retirement formulas, health care costs, and more. CALPERS can adjust it up or down by 0.5. This is then sent to CALHR. We were told this current drop was based on the increase of employees over the last couple years, probably the substantial increase in FFI rank in my mind. Also FAE rank has gone up a bit on the 02350 side as well.
OPEB calculations can’t be implemented outside of bargaining. The amount would be the adjustments over the length of the contract, so example:
2 year contract with a 3.4 OPEB
Year one from CALPERS 0.5 drop
Year two from CALPERS 0.5 increase
Bargaining: Maintain 3.4 OPEB
The language in the new MOU only cleans this up, this is what has been happening all along because of the OPEB ruling.

As I said please don’t take this as gospel, I will be asking follow up questions as well. It seems as well every chapter is presenting slightly different details and are still waiting on clarification on a few items. I feel like we are be asked to vote without all of the facts played out and if we don’t vote yes we are telling the state we are ok with current working conditions, instead of telling them this isn’t good enough.
Supposedly IAFF will not support Gavin for further political office if we are still working the 72. He will be probably running for president on the next cycle and we will be talking about working a 66 which should mean no endorsement from IAFF and CPF. We shall see but I’m always wary of support from those two.

I don’t understand why people are being told two completely different things about OPEB.

In our current contract, it doesn’t matter to BU8 that CALPERS calculates OPEB on an annual basis as we are at a fixed rate of 4.4%. This contract language didn’t clean up something that is already happening, as we are at a FIXED rate that CalHR can not adjust. This is a huge take away in our contract. This is purely a money grab by the state for employees to contribute more toward OPEB.

The TA clearly states that the increase will begin July 1, 2023, it’s not fixed at 3.4% for the duration of the contract.

CalHR would not be implementing the adjustment outside of bargaining, since it’s in the TA. A yes vote approved the adjustment within the collective bargaining process as outlined by the Dills Act.

Thank you for the info, it’s very helpful to see what is being told to the membership. Please don’t take this as me coming at you, I’m not shooting the messenger here. Just want to make sure the info getting passed is clarified for all.

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Yup OPEB has been my biggest hangup. I asked specifically about July 1, 2023. I was told that calculation automatically happens from CALPERS no matter what. It can’t be adjusted on our end outside of bargaining. So the commutative over the contact length is what should be used for bargaining like my example. I feel like we are being rushed for a yes vote by design. Many of the perks take place upon ratification rather than retro so the longer we wait the more money we lose.

Yes.

You think it was a coincidence that multiple (four, I think) bargaining units whose contracts expired July 1 got TAs within a week of the end of the legislative session on August 31?

Like I said before…

This was a concern in the Legislative Analyst’s Report also. Pretty firm wording used in that report. Unit 8 (Firefighters) MOU Analysis

This is exactly CalHRs playbook.

Is it illegal? Technically, no.

Is it devious? I’d say so.

Also, the OPEB is certainly a concern, but the loss of EDWC takes the cake in my book!

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That’s what I thought. Hard to go to last, best, and final without a few rounds of negotiating to establish a good faith negotiation, with PERB hanging over their heads. Sounds like those no votes gives negotiation another shot to get better results. If they prevail! What is there to lose? I’ve always said never accept the 1st deal thrown at you. The art of negotiation!

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The L.A.O. analysis makes one very important point! “The current legislature can’t bind the hands of future legislatures”. This is an extremely important point when talking work hour reduction and the 72 to 66 hour language that does just that with this committee and future promise. A future legislature can say no and not honor it.

In my humble opinion, Newsom is passing the buck to the next legislature and Gov. as he is no doubt the heir apparent to Biden in 2024 as the Dem. Nominee. Good for Ca. if he goes, bad if he wins in 24.

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I agree with a lot of your points, and everything you pointed out is how I actually feel but choose to write my post as the devils advocate from the other point of view.

You are correct in saying I had to reach far out and add the $260 a month to bring that 66 hour work week to “no loss in compensation.” I did that for the purpose of proving the opposing sides point of view to say we are being compensated the same. I know it affects my retirement which is a big deal to me because I’m still in double digit years left with this agency so I very much care about retirement numbers going down. $4000 less per year towards retirement matters to me.

The OPEB was explained in post 496. The language of the contract was explained to us by our lawyer and stated that it’s a set number for the duration of the contract, evaluated every year, then compounded for a new number come the next bargaining and negotiations. Reaching out to other bargaining units can confirm this.

I understand how FLSA works, and LG departments sometimes work 10 days in a 28 day pay period and sometimes work 8 days in a 28 day pay period. A 48/96 is very simple math to look at. It’s a 6 day cycle. Working your 2 days every 6 day cycle, it takes 5 cycles to hit your 10 days. 5 cycles times 6 days is 30. So LG works 10 days every 30 days. LG also gets one paycheck every 2 weeks to stay in the 28 day pay system. They don’t get “EDWC” and their salary is much higher than ours. Now the CAL FIRE piece is because of the SCO pay system. Because of how EPAY works, we will have to hit a minimum number of hours to receive that “EDWC.” Right now, we must work 12 days in a 28 day work period to meet our 288. Come the “66” hour work week, we will need to work 264 hours every 28 day work period to meet our minimum requirement. Then, come the “56” hour work week, we will have to meet 240 hours every 28 days to meet our minimum hours to receive our “EDWC.” Thus the 10 days every 28 day work period, 13 work periods a year, 130 scheduled work days opposed to 120 for LG (365/6 for the duty cycle, x2 for days worked.) We would need to eliminate “EDWC” to go to a true 48/96 (or equivalent 56 hour work schedule.)

The current agreement is GSI’s, longevity bonus increases, and the $260 a month towards “healthcare.”

My personal feelings, I don’t think it’s a great contract but I don’t think it’s horrible either. It’s better than what we have right now though. Some people are gamblers and will say wait until the better offer comes through, thinking they are going to hit the jackpot, but like I said the engineers union has been waiting for that jackpot for 4 years.

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I like your logical thinking and you obviously have taken the time to understand the numbers.

I apologize for taking your calculations at face value and not recognizing your “devils advocate” position. I respect and actually appreciate you taking that position, as I’ve been trying to understand the case for supporting this TA since day one.

I follow your thought process on the need to eliminate EDWC in order to go to a 56. If that’s what really has to happen, I would be OK with that so long as PERSable salary is increased in proportion to the EDWC loss.

I do adamantly disagree with your statement that “It’s better than we have now”. Maybe all the provisions other than the EDWC loss might be better, but, to me, the EDWC loss is a catastrophe that it seems many people either aren’t realizing or are ignoring.

Like I said before, one of the big reasons many that started with CDF back in the day and stayed with this organization was that the retirement package somewhat made up for the low pay and poor schedule you endured for all your working years.

We’ve taken numerous hits to that retirement package in the last 10 to 15 years and our meager PERSable income is all we have left.

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All, let’s keep this discussion focused on the specifics of the MOU Tentative Agreement only. This is not a forum for agency bashing, political backlash, or criticizing the unions actions.

Please keep it civil to keep this thread from getting locked again. I do believe this discourse is essential for the membership to have in a positive manner.

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Audentes Fortuna Iuvat - Fortune Favors The Brave

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There are other nuances to working a pattern that doesn’t repeat evenly within a work period like If you only work 8 days in a 28, your hourly rate is higher than if 9, 10, 11 or 12 days are worked because your salary is divided by less hours. So OT rate is significantly higher, too.

With the tentative agreement there isn’t a loss in persable compensation. I’ve read every post on this thread and a lot of it is focused on the 66 hour work week and reduction in EDWC, but that literally isn’t a part of this tentative agreement, it is a “JLC will develop and implement for a transition by November 1, 2024” which will be a part of a new tentative agreement. This tentative agreement is literally voting to keep us on a 72 hour schedule for 2 years and get paid more money with less deductions. If we go back to bargaining we aren’t getting a 56 hour work week in the next 2 years. This current agreement at least cracks the door for it though. A lot of the argument is over things that aren’t in this contract, i.e. loss of EDWC, retirement, a 66 hour duty schedule, etc. we have to look at what’s in front of us and vote on that, not what we wanted or what it could lead to.

And retirement is a completely separate issue. We can’t bargain for that through the contract negotiations without getting PEPRA reformed. We currently have the best option PEPRA offers, other agencies get 2% at 57 with no medical coverage whatsoever.

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This is not true. There is a formula for calculating our hourly OT rate and it has nothing to do with days worked per month.

Salary/4.33/53x1.5 is the OT rate. EDWC is affected by days worked in a month, but not hourly OT rate.

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I think we’re heading down the same path but interpreting and expressing it differently.

I may need to clarify my concern.

It is true that the fact that a 66 is even being discussed is a huge step forward. Does it “crack the door”? Absolutely.

Will we be paid more between now and whenever the 66 goes into effect? No question.

The fact that a JLMC will be formed to develop the terms of a 66 is certainly a positive, as it should account for the needs and desires of both labor and management.

The problem I have is that we are agreeing on an implementation date for a deal that we have no details about. We’re putting the train on the tracks without knowing which way the switches are aligned and the train has no brakes. Do the tracks lead to a cliff? We don’t know.

There is certainly a possibility (although I find it highly unlikely) that, upon transitioning to a 66 hour week, CalHR will either allow EDWC to remain the same or transition the lost EDWC into PERSable salary.

Even if CalHR were to roll the EDWC into salary, look at the timing. By then, we will be negotiating a new contract. I find it hard to believe that any salary adjustments due to loss of EDWC wouldn’t be intermingled with any planned GSI, effectively netting a 0% GSI.

Look at what happened with the HERO pay. That was a completely independent, standalone issue from the renewal of our contract. To me, this should have been a side letter that addressed the usage of one-time funds, not written in as one of the “gains” in our TA.

In my mind, CalHR used one-time funds we probably would have received anyway to make this TA look more “juicy”.

I have a hard time believing CalHR wouldn’t use similar tactics to intermingle a GSI with any salary bump to offset loss of EDWC.

To me, that’s the best case scenario, which I find highly unlikely.

I see CalHR saying 24 hours less worked is 24 hours less pay and giving us a 2% GSI for the 2024.

Not worth the risk to me when we can hit the pause button right here and work out all the details before we vote.

Clear out the smoke and mirrors, get rid of the ambiguity, no more taking a lump today so we look better at the table next time.

I want to vote on cold, hard facts.

As with the HERO pay, I feel the transition to a 66 (or 56) needs to be done in a side letter separate from contract negotiations. There are too many intricacies and variables involved in a schedule change that really muddy the waters of the TA process.

If we vote for this and things work out the way I think they will, we’ll be left holding the bag while CalHR laughs all the way to the bank.

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Your formula works because 53 is 1/4 of 212hrs/28 days with our evenly repeating 3/4 shift. With wonky 24s or 48s that dont repeat evenly in however many days are in the work period, it will be less than 53 if you work less days in the pay period. But we are salaried so base monthly pay stays the same no matter how few or many days you work. Trust me, I lived this calculation nightmare for several years after my previous dept won an FLSA lawsuit, with 2 years back pay as well.

Everybody holds off on voluntary overtime until the 8 day work pattern shows up. OT was about x2 time compared to the 10 day 1.5 rate.