I’ve see on social media that President Edwards and brass have visited some of the units. With so many questions, and this being to so contentious, why are they not visiting all the units? 90 days 21 units, not a mathematation but, that seem like enough time to beat the drum on a barnstorming tour.
All due to bad public policies. This Ca. Governor, trying to become relevant in the upcoming 2024 Presidential race, has literally overspent Ca’s budget and adopted very bad public policy to make himself look good as a candidate. He has left Ca. Public Employee’s out to dry. In my opinion, right now 2881 needs to be the squeaky wheel. The leverage here is that he doesn’t need Ca’s largest Fire Department openly fighting him for a fair contract. It’s not good for his 2024 ambitions. I believe should 2881 decline this contract he will apply the grease until the squeaky wheel stops. If they declare last, best, and final than so be it. He’ll still have 2881 openly criticizing the contract without giving in.
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You really think he gives a crap about 2881? I don’t, IAFF sure.
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Yes, I do! If 2881 isn’t supporting him than IAFF might not. I’m not sure what their rules are but in Law Enforcement if the local department union isn’t supporting the candidate then the national won’t.
Well,
L2881 didn’t support him in the recall last year, I don’t know about IAFF.
But L2881 supports Prop 30 and the Governor does not support it.
These are just 2 examples of L2881 & the Governor not being on the same page.
With all due respect, this is the mentality that we need to get rid of. If we keep just saying ill take what they give us now and hope for better later, the state will forever continue to walk all over us. We need to be strong as a membership or why would the state ever respect us?
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Because of the saying “you can’t squeeze blood from a turnip” and “there are strength in numbers”
Reason #1
Look at CDCR, they haven’t been able to slow down the population decline and their numbers have gone flat and being allowed through attrition to decline
Reason #2
SEIU has over 100,000 members and counting in California. They are sponsors of major legislation and are the 800lb gorilla when it comes to collective bargaining in California
Reason #3
IAFF doesn’t even have 350,000 members in Canada & the US combined. The leverage that can be applied is next to nothing. The unions own Podcast spells out the wage scales of LG, County, & State agencies.
Reason #4
30yr mortgage interest rates are at 7% and climbing. Pending housing sales have plummeted. The housing market is on the verge of a free fall. Don’t be surprised when mortgage rates hit 10% in 2023. The last time housing crashed, property taxes declined due to bankruptcies and homeowners getting updated valuations and lowering property taxes. Prop 13 capped increases at a maximum. But nothing can stop revaluation when values plummet.
Reason #5
California is already $4 billion dollars short of expected sales tax revenues July 1- Sept 30(FY 22/23 Q1) that shortfall will continue. I won’t be suprised to see budgets cuts in Q1 of 2023.
Reason #6
This TA has ZERO take aways and is good for only 2yr. It expires on 6/30/2024. It also sets in motion a pathway to a 66hr work week as staffing levels increase.
Reason #7
The union and governor are on opposite sides of several issues, including Prop 30. Like it or not, he owns the bully pulpit. Now maybe of someone else becomes Governor that situation “could” change.
I am all for fighting for what’s fair. I absolutely believe there is a need to improve the agreement beyond what we have, what we are being offered, and what’s proposed(66Hr). But the reality on the ground for the next 3-12mo is a declining economy, increasing costs(Medical, dental, vision) and 7.5% wage increase with zero take a ways.
Finally,
The engineers have been working W/O an agreement going on 4yr with no end in sight. Are you willing to absorb a 20% increase in medical co-payments on top of 8% inflation with zero in return and restarting negotiations?
My answer to that question is no.
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Good representation of the current situation. Agreed
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California’s gross state product is $3.4 trillion, and is the fifth strongest economy in the world. California currently has a budget surplus of approximately $100 billion. California is far from a turnip.
There is only strength in numbers, if those numbers actually stand strong and don’t allow the state to walk all over us.
Response #1
We are not CDCR, our numbers have not gone flat. Our numbers are increasing and will continue to grow for the foreseeable future. Especially if prop 30 passes.
Response #2
Again, we are not SEIU and we also sponsor major legislation. When is the last time SEIU had a state senator float a senate bill to increase the staffing our any BU’s that SEIU represents? Have you ever read over the SEIU Master Agreement for BU’s 1, 3, 4, 11, 14, 15, 17, 20, AND 21? They might be large but I would not exactly call them a 800lb gorilla when it comes to collective bargaining, if that was the case their contract provision would be much better. Which is one of the main reason for their current internal power struggle.
Response #3
That is absolutely not true, the IAFF wields huge political clout. An IAFF endorsement is key for any candidacy for president of the United States. From what I have been told, the only reason the state budged at all on our schedule was because Ed Kelly met with Newsom multiple times about it. Kelly told Newsom he would not receive an IAFF endorsement if he runs for president in 2024 if CAL FIRE was still working a 72. If you see the article in the last fire front magazines that touched on this?
Response #4
The housing market is not on the verge of a free fall. The housing market is in a much different place than it was the last time the market crashed. The market crash last time was caused by bad lending practices and almost nonexistent equity in homes. Which meant most people could walk away from the underwater home with almost no consequence other than a 3 year hit to their credit score. Today lending standard are completely different than they were at that time. Today people have massive amounts of equity in their homes, equity that they are not just going to walk away from.
On top of that, housing value is directly correlated to supply and demand of housing stock. During the last crash when there were massive amounts of foreclosed homes that could be purchased for less than their build cost. Private equity firms such as Black Rock purchased every house they could get their hands on at auction. For the sake of supply and demand, you can completely take those homes out of the supply stock as they will never be sold to an individual homeowner, ever. If ever sold they will be sold in large blocks to other private equity firms, this keeps supply of housing stock low. Not to mention a state Legislative Analysis Office report on housing stated that every year since 1980, 100,000 more house units needed to be built annually in the state to keep up with growth. That means today over 40 years later the state needs 4,000,000 more housing units than it has to support the population.
Response #5
Again, California has a $100,000,000,000 surplus. Also, an analysis released last month by Moody’s analytics found that California ranked fourth among 50 states for recession preparedness.
https://www.economy.com/getlocal?q=a7a91c91-cad1-447d-a03f-cd48c8cdaa21&app=eccafile
Response #6
There is a massive take away in this contract. The sad thing is that take away has been spun as a positive. Under this contract, OPEB will go from 4.4% fixed to 3.4% variable for one year, with the ability for the state to raise OPEB up to .5% annually with no cap after the one year period at 3.4%. Notice that part about OPEB being variable up to .5% annually was left out of the PowerPoint explaining the contract, I’m sure it was just an oversight…
So for someone just entering the department at 18 and has 39 years to work before retirement, that is a potential of an 19.5% loss in compensation over their career.
Over the next 39 years, do you anticipate healthcare cost decreasing or increasing? My money is on increasing health care costs.
Response #7
That is even more of a reason for us to tell him to pound sand, we need to send a clear message that we are serious and we will not back down. With his political ambitions I guarantee he does not want to get into a contract battle with his states firefighters, would not exactly be a good image. Our department is bleeding people at a massive rate, the exodus of employees is not sustainable. If we want to preserve the department we all know and love, things need to change, not in two years, not in 6 years with a future contract, now with this contract before it’s too late.
If you believe there is a need to improve the agreement, the time to be strong is now. Not the next time around, as we all know how that’s worked out for us in the past.
Fortis Fortuna Adiuvat - Fortune Favors The Brave.
The engineers have a contract, they received a 7.5% GSI over three years and paid family leave. If your referring to BU10 Professional Scientists, they have been holding out for a 43% pay increase. In 2005, the engineers received raises of 18%-43%. Engineers and scientist for the state perform very similar jobs. BU 10 sued the state over violating the states equal work equal pay provisions. That court case resulted in the supervisory scientists getting the same 18%-43%, but not the rank and file scientists, which they have been fighting for ever since. They are standing strong and no backing down.
How would it be zero in return? All a no vote does is defer that return a little longer. We would reopen negotiations and continue to work towards a meaningful contract to address the issues I’ve stated. Under the Dills act, the state could not offer us anything less than what is already offered in the TA, if they did the state is opening its self up to litigation. Past practice for raises is retroactive backpay to the contract expiration of July 1st, 2022, if the state did not honor its past practice, again the state opens its self up to litigation. Like I said before the governor does not want to get into an lengthy negotiating or legal battle with the firefighter.
So to answer your question, yes I am willing to take those chances and show the state we will no longer be walked all over as a membership.
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The State doesn’t have a budget problem, the State has a spending problem. Our raises are going to expenditures that are massively stupid! Have you seen the money that pours out to the homeless problems that doesn’t change the problem 1 ioda? Have you seen the money that is being spent on our border problem? ( the freebies being handed out to the illegal crossers on the open border ). We could go on for days on the State expenditures that are just throw away money into the trillions. So, the argument that we must accept a contract because the State is broke and estimated going into a deficit is bonkers. Newsom has shown if he wants to he can find the money. This contract negotiations for 2881 is like a broken record. We are so gullible and the State knows our track record. It’s the same ol’ song and dance. We always just roll over to the State saying we have no money, we’re broke, it’s the best we will get, and so on and so on. We’ve never put up a fight so how do we know what’s attainable?
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I’m right there with you, I was not at all saying we need to accept this contract. I was saying the exact opposite, that we need to not do what we always do and take whenever crumbs the state gives us. We need to vote no and go back to negotiations now, not in 1.9 years from now. We’re you meaning to reply to Ehoss84, as he was the one saying we need to accept this?
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Yes. Was just backing up your comments. I agree with your response to EHoss. He’s a good guy, just different opinions.
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Thank you sir for the kind words!
How do we prevent the wreck less spending that “buys votes”?
I agree with 100% of your assessment. However, look at what Newsom was able to do to Larry Elder last year. How do you beat that machine that has LA, SF & Sacramento votes locked up?
As for the McGuirre Bill, look at where it is currently? There is a reason it hasn’t proceeded. Ask yourself WHY?
As for OPED, that is out of the hands if the dept and the union. I agree 100% with trying to stop that. However, the change has to happen at the CONTROL AGENCY FIRST.
Finally, remember PEPRA is the LAW. Pay parity has passed both houses of the legislator only to be VETOED by the Governor. Which leads me back to HOW DO YOU GET PASSED GOV NEWSOM?
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Start with the Gozillian dollar train to nowhere. Then gas prices. Pretty sure his policy is still restricting new drilling and adding refining capacity.
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I am posing this reply to you IA because while I think I am a fairly smart guy, after reading a number of posts you have written, you definitely have a greater understanding of all the intricacies and numbers that go into our Contract.
My question is what do you think would be acceptable in this negotiation? Cold hard numbers wise. If you have access to the numbers, use either a top step FAE or FCA. But it can’t be any more than what CDCR agreed to because that would bring them back to the table, because of the favored nation clause, and face it, that will not happen.
Or if anyone else has some opinions on it, I would be grateful for your input.
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Maybe we get something better and drag everybody else up with us. After all, more votes and support in 2024.
GF21815, thank you for the question.
Shift Patterns: Transition all fire protection employees, regardless of classification or program to the same shift pattern. The department will utilize MOU shift pattern 1, which is (3) 24 hour days in a row. All other shift pattern would be removed from the MOU and could not be utilized for staffing.
Salary: GSI of 7.5% for all classifications. Which is the average of the increase to minimum wage and social security do to inflation. 2.5% increase retroactive back to July 1, 2022. 3% increase effective January 1, 2023. 2% increase effective July 1, 2023.
*This increase would not trigger CDCR contract re-opener side letter, as long as the increases are not in 2022. From BU6 side letter “In recognition of the contract
extension referenced in the previous section, CCPOA shall have the ability to
reopen this section should another bargaining unit receive a negotiated-GSI
(negotiated after June 1, 2021) greater than 2.5% payable in 2022.”
OPEB: Maintain a fixed rate OPEB. Defer 1% of the 7.5% GSI into OPEB, funded by the employer. In total our OPEB contribution would be 5.4% fixed rate, 4.4% employee funded and 1% employer funded in lieu of the deferred 1% GSI.
Recruitment and Retention Joint Labor/Management Committee - Examine vacancies along with hiring trends to identify and document recruitment & retention issues within the department. Develop a committee report on the findings no later than June 30, 2024.
Maximum Duty Days: Agreement with the state on how many consecutive days an employee can work. i.e. employees who work 14 consecutive days will be afforded two days off-duty, not inclusive of travel to and from work/home. Upon mutual agreement between employee and employer, an employee can be extended for up to a maximum of 21 days.
Reduction In Duty Week: Much more solid language on how we work towards achieving a 56 hour work week, which is the industry standard. We all know the reduction in duty week will take time, planning, additional personnel and its not going to happen over night. With all of that said that that needs to be the focus. Under this TA, we are just kicking the can down the road. At the pace it will take to achieve a 56hr/week under the TA, most of us will be lucky if it happens before we retire. The way I see it, at the current pace with the 66hr/week, it will be 10 years or more before were actually working a 56.
A big salary increase is not what is important to the majority of the membership. What is the most important is a work/life balance. People are burned-out over getting forced and being gone away from family. People are prioritizing time off of work more than compensation. Which is clear by looking at the priorities of the membership for the bargaining team through the resolution process and the 1500 manual.
Not every problem can be solved by simply throwing money at the issue. We are bleeding people at an unsustainable rate. If you ask the permanent employees who have left the department, why they left. The reason is almost never because they wanted to make more money, the answer is almost always because its better for their family life. It doesn’t matter how highly we are compensated, if we do not get down to the root cause of why so many people are leaving or have left the department.
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Thanks for the reply. Nice to actually see it written down with a coherent explanation on each point. Who would have thought it possible lol.
In our Chapter meetings we were told that the 56 hour work week is no longer something that we are going to be pushing for. It has to do with how the patterns are constantly shifting and there are pay periods because of this that won’t reach the requisite hours for all the FSLA benefits we receive. We were also told that that a number of Unions on the LG side of things were actually trying to go to a shift pattern similar to what our end game is with the 60 hour work week because it would in fact be a raise either with compensation or benefits due to FSLA. Has anyone else been presented with this information in any of the meetings?
Will you please run for 2881 President 
you have my vote!
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The patterns shifting is something LG has made work since the 70’s. PACMANS may not be able to handle it, but it’s easily done.
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