Firefighter Endorsement

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#36

So
Regulated vehicles (Commercial Motor Vehicles-CMV) are those rated greater than 26,001lb GVWR
CMV have all the federal regulations and the states can make stronger, and not less. Those unregulated vehicles(below 26,000 GVWR) are subject to state and not federal regulations.

The FF exemption was intended for engines and water tenders ONLY. correct about the camps and the BIT inspection “problems”

Bottom line is this, if it’s a CMV federal rules apply. The FF exemption will NOT WORK for CCV, HEFO’s and the Helitender(AKA BOMBS). Those FC & FAE in the crew program have to drive with a Commercial Class B with Passenger Endorsement.

The law that took effect on Feb 7, 2022 is a federal law and apply to CMV’s, hence the reason for the 16hr behind the wheel driver training before taking the DMV road test.

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#38

OK A question came up this week. What about our stakesides with a 26K GVW AND air brakes. Class C or Class C with Air Brake endorsement?

#39

When was the last time your engines and water tenders were scaled per CDF contractor requirements ? By that I refer to fully loaded with fuel, hose and accessories complement, full crew including whatever to taken on out of area assignment. Also comparing that weight ticket to the GVW of front axle and the rear axle(s). The rating of a vehicle has more to do with registration/weight fees. My point being when have you seen a stakeside weighted ?
By the way, any vehicle can be a regulated vehicle if carrying reportable quantities of haz-mat cargo . Ie… propane cylinders, fuel, certain ignition devices, even fire retardants is a haz-mat load in its dry bulk form.
Just observations from someone who has been there and observed that.

#40

If it has CA 9002 for CAL FIRE vehicles, it is regulated. In theory you have to have a full Class B, and any applicable endorsements required (air, manual transmission, hazmat). However current thinking is all of our vehicles are emergency so you only need Class C with firefighter endorsement. That license will get you to and from the “Emergency”

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#41

From Heimduo.org

Do you need an air brake endorsement under 26 000 in California?

For some bizarre reason, an air brake endorsement only applies to CDL drivers – an F750 equipped with air brakes and grossing at 26,000 lbs or less does not require a CDL or air brake permissions. Q. I would like to put a 1200 gallon hydroseeder on a truck. If the truck has a GVWR of under 26,001 lbs.

Does a vehicle with a GVWR of 26001 pounds require a CDL to drive?

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles: Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds. Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.

Do you need a CDL to drive a 26 foot truck?

A 26-foot box truck has an average GVWR of 26,000 pounds which does not require a CDL. You can therefore drive one with a regular driver’s license.

At what weight are air brakes required?

For example, a person can drive a straight truck with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 (under 26,001 lbs.) with air brakes, and no CDL is required. The “air brake” reference is commonly thought of as an “endorsement”.

Do you need a CDL for air brakes in California?

Primary question: Is there any level of commercial license/air brake endorsement needed to operate this vehicle legally in California?. Any class C driver can drive that truck in CA. There is NO air brake endorsement required for a vehicle under 26,000lbs GVW.

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#42

That rule actually makes a bit of sense. Air brakes are 110% better than hydraulic on trucks this size and making that more difficult to drive legally might be counterproductive to safety. As to special knowledge required, I don’t know what to think. Seems there are a lot of CDL holders running around who forgot most of what they ever knew about air brakes and any other general theory on the test.

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#43

You are correct pal, but so grey and non transparent with CF. 4 years ago regulated CF vehicles with the DOT number on the door, had “random” or not so much, BIT inspections at CF stations up and down the state. CHP inspectors (same ones at weigh stations) arguing with FEM’s and making phone calls. How many TD’s have you seen with and without the number, along with tenders and Busses. Very wishy washy unit to unit. Were “exempt”… no were not, yes we are… back and fourth with every FEM up and down the state. So now, currently, no numbers on the doors. No random Controlled substance test’s either. No joke. Were “exempt”… I say what a joke. Your asking for problems. Pretty soon a FF endorsement will be haulin MKU’s and dozers. But, Yes, a CHP DOT F250 cop was working the OAK fire incident. I did see a agency water tender stopped by him and I have heard conversations of non engine type fire related equipment being checked. I have no idea the outcome. Keep lowering the standard for employment requirements. Scratch your head and wonder why you have broken equipment. Cheers

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#45

So……,
I guess the actual question is do we follow the law or are we above the law .
If I remember right, the hose trailers used by FS are over 10,000 lbs. And ANY trailer with a GVWR over 10,000 lbs requires class A license, no matter the current cargo (empty or loaded).

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#46

Correct, hence why most smaller rental yards with compact equipment started checking DLs or offering delivery.
GreenBelt, UR has been in this practice for years. But I guess there below the law and can appreciate a Fine and ding on there insurance. There’s something about experienced CDL driver vs FF endorsed driving a Tender, Engine etc, that I would assume most people that would have to a pay insurance bill would pay attention too. Government is self insured/self registered. Lost of huge budgets and the affordability of a lawyer or two. Lots and lots of generational this is fine (we’re above the law; doesn’t apply to us). I’m not a cop, it’s a free country. But I can appreciate being better safe than sorry and susceptible… I mean we are the FD… isn’t that our job. Cheers.

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#47

We are NOT EXEMPT from federal law. States can make laws stronger but not weaker.

In the case of the CMV rules, those CF employees without a Commercial Class B and Passenger endorsement who are driving a CCV are in violation of the law.

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#48

Except its back… FF endorsement CC’s at camps, FF endorsement FEO’s at Hand Crews without Passenger Endorsements and the good old FF endorsement classes still being provided by Training. Opening Dialogue , " Ya you can drive a transport now as long as it has a lightbar!" HaHa Shucks… Really wish the policy language would stay in front of current standards.
The only folks in the DMV Pull programs are mechanics with CDL’s. Talk about “Loose”

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#50

Anyone got a newer policy

#51

That was policy, the rule or law the state did was written so badly they wrote another to clarify the first. The bottom line is if the operator is not licensed and endorsed for the vehicle and has an accident, the lawyers win operator loses

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#52

I agree Ed, Temporary directives for hiring and “Meats in the seat”, are just that, Temporary. It seems that nothing though is followed up anymore.

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#53

I guess I can still operate fire equipment as I still have a FF endorsement. (Put on my license with out my consent)

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#54

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#55

I believe… after reading this at least a dozen times, that you can not operate a regulated vehicle with a Class C FF endorsement… please feel free to explain in more detail or clarify. I know everyone is busy. :sunglasses:

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#56

The weight GVWR or GCWR is key. The federal government defines a Commercial Moter Vehicle (CMV) as a single vehicle greater than 26,001lb or a combination of vehicles where the trailer weighs greater than 10,000lb.

This is where the rubber meets the road and its still CLEAR AS MUD!

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#57

I read this the exact same way you do, every time I read it…ha!

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#58

What I’m interpreting is, Cant drive a CCV or Transport

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