As someone who lives in Riverside county I vaguely know what your asking for. But as someone who has been in this industry in one form or fashion for 28 years. Who has worked with inmates. Who works with former inmates from FF all the way to Chief Officers and understands how the system works, I cannot agree more with @bcshort POV. The article you linked tells approximately half the story and is a real push for
“equal pay” But mentions next to NOTHING how/why they are in prison in the first place. Additionally, you mention NOTHING about 2:1 days off sentences and continue the OUT RIGHT LIE that getting an EMT is not possible. As I stated, I PERSONALLY work with/for several former inmates who obtained their EMT and have achieved ranks from FF-Chief Officer.
Thanks for your reply. I’m not sure what information regarding inmate injuries and deaths you are referring to and I certainly can’t speak to record keeping/investigations from 40 years ago. I can speak from my experience in the Camp program i the early 90’s. I can tell you that all injuries are documented. A Fire Captain or above would be a fool to do anything else. Inmates have rights and failure to care for them properly could easily lead to a lawsuit or disciplinary action. Any significant injury (and all deaths) that are work incurred will be investigated by OSHA. They have a big hammer and aren’t afraid to use it. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by hiding or covering up injuries and deaths.
On another note, requiring that inmates be paid minimum wage would mean the end of the Conservation Camp program. It would be cheaper to hire free individuals that don’t require correctional care. This would end the best, most cost effective, positive program the State of California has. I would encourage you to spend some time visiting a camp, maybe even do a ride-a-long with a crew. Talk to folks and find out what is really involved in the program. Don’t believe everything you are told, trust but verify. If you approach the individuals with a positive attitude they will receive you in an open and positive manner. If they even begin to suspect that you are doing negative and biased journalism they will shut down faster than …well, really fast.
Good luck on your story.
Amen. Thanks bcshort. Having worked in LA County’s Fire Camps since 1983, I hole hardedly agree and perhaps, if qualified, go out with an Inmate fire crew for a 24 hour shift on the fireline.
To my knowledge, the only two agencies that have State Inmate Fire Crews are CalFire and LA County Fire,
@ryanharvey… Nearly a decade and a half in the camp system here. …as a crew supervisor
No slander. No guessing… No agenda… But definitely some expert advice…and some field spoken evaluation of your words… If you would like to pm me. Let’s set up a candid chat. No need for keyboard warrior stuff. Let’s talk. And if your intent is valid, bet I can point you in the correct direction.
Unfortunately, public information act should have gotten all of the FACTS to you. Just in case the government is not yielding this information to you…happy to help!
Unfortunately, the microscope is so close on the agencies you are criticising…I don’t think they could,or would create the waves you insinuate, nor do the fallen deserve the perceived disservice.
But, in the interest of the facts. Please reach out to me.
Hi. In reply to your message, I’m not sure if you read my previous piece but our entire article is based on interviews with former inmate firefighters. We did attempt to give a nuanced view of the camp system, and spoke very directly about the benefits of the program, it being amongst the best work programs in the country for prisoners, and wrote that both of those we spoke with would participate again. Sadly, the editors did cut part of the article where we discussed the 2-for-1 time-served, which is a shame. I have been very annoyed at the lack of including that details in articles about their wages.
As for the EMT detail, that’s what we were told by folks from California state agencies about 2 years ago, not sure what to say to it today, but that’s what we were told at the time. That said, it was extremely hard to get a straight answer from various agencies, and it’s unclear who actually knows the law there. To be clear, we never say it is impossible for a former-inmate to get an EMT certification, we said that there is a 5-year wait, sometimes a 10-year wait, and sometimes it is not possible. That’s what we wrote.
Would love to hear stories from former inmates who obtained EMT and became firefighters…
Thanks. We have spoken at length with OSHA and have filed requests for information from them, as well as from several other agencies. They have been helped and hopefully we will find that we are wrong about some of what we’ve found. But one thing we are not wrong about is that CDCR has been giving out a significantly false figure to the press for many years. Rest assured.
I appreciate your suggestions and I want to reiterate that while I am digging into facts and have some suspicions about how the State of California is handling the deaths of inmate firefighters, I have been and will continue to be careful about and understanding of the fact that this program has really important benefits both for the public and for the participants, and do not wish to hurt its viability as an alternative option for folks in prison. We have seen a lot of non-violent drug offenders in the data we have, which is certainly problematic to me (that a non-violent, low-level drug offender would be put in a situation to have to make that choice, and ends up paying the ultimate price).
But the article I am working on now is not an opinion piece as a much as a data-driven look at how deaths are reported, not reported, and remember in the public.
Thanks, I appreciate what you’ve said here. I’m certainly extending myself in order to be accountable to the work I’m doing and am certainly now out here to misquote anyone or paint folks with a bad brush. I have opinions for sure, as we all do, but I’m not writing hit pieces.
Hey there, it won’t let me send you a personal message. Can you try sending me one, or other we can email?