Obstacles to Landscape-Scale Hazard Reduction

[Dozer_Keith]

Nobody is suggesting that the system is very much broken and the City leadership in most cases does their own thing. Hell, the City of Paradise ignored a Grand Jury report regarding necessary upgrades to the egress paths. What you said is all true, that cannot mean we (the citizens) just accept that’s the way it is. WE have to become responsible for our own safety, our own defensible space, and becoming more engaged with changing the leadership that does things which are counter to the public’s safety. I am going to use Paradise as an example, not to be mean and disparaging of a city and population who has lost so much but more to learn from their tragedy, because unless we do, it’s going to happen again and again. In the case of Paradise, the same City Council members who ignored the Grand Jury report are still on the City Council. That’s a good place to start change.

Prior to the Camp Fire, how many of the residents of the area seriously took defensible space seriously? How many people had a plan for leaving including necessary items to take put in a readily accessible place, a primary, secondary, & tertiary exit plan, a meeting place pre-established in case of getting separated from other family members? How many people waited for someone to tell them to go, with a system that was never designed to handle the magnitude of a situation like that?

Yes, the numbers for the Camp Fire are staggering, as they should be for any human with feelings, but we have to use those tragic situations to better ourselves. Those of us who were raised in the rural environments, as I was, have an easier time understanding the necessity of being prepared as individuals than the “transplants” from the urban and suburbs but if you are going to live in the WUI, you can no longer expect or wait for somebody else to do something, that responsibility and ownership is on each and every individual, not the city leadership, not somebody else.

The point of all of this is, that if we sit back and say, nothing is changing and everything is broken, nothing will ever change and it will always be broken. Make change happen!

[AsterHacker]

Agreed that we all need to learn from Paradise and other tragedies and learn to apply new thinking to solve stubborn problems. But would you say it’s possible to not “sit back”, and instead be engaged, while also pointing out what’s broken? Or can a system dynamic that ignores its citizenry’s fire safety concerns not take a single shred of criticism in order to evolve to serve its citizenry better? And what role do we play in that? How can we engage the public better? What specific, actionable engagement would you recommend when, as an example, AFTER Paradise a similar local government planning agency ignores its local fire safety guidelines and its vocal and concerned citizens to instead allow private-interest businesses in very high fire hazard severity zones to have open flame fires during bone dry summer months? How could self-reliance possibly be enough for rural residents today when a neighbor is allowed to have such fire via loopholes? It’s also important to understand what is now vs. what has been, both are important and have their place for our better understanding for sure. But rural living faces some additional challenges now and going forward. So how can our collective concern for each other’s lives and safety be turned into simple, productive, understandable, effective, everyday action?

[Ehoss84]

You are asking the answer to a smaller problem with a LARGER PROBLEM.

Let me ask, As a society, can we accept and take criticism in 2020?

I ask this because of the current political environment and how society has acted recently. With revisionist history, no score youth spots leagues, and everyone gets a trophy mentality do we REALLY think we will make headway? I am all for change, we need to do something because what we’ve been doing for the past 40yr isn’t working. I’m just tired up paddling up stream in the river and the powers that be keep turning up the water flow in the river.

[firedog1]

Good thought.
We need to accept that 1. Population is expanding and will have to live somewhere. 2. WUI Encroachment is a given unless we force people into high rise hamster housing. 3. People need to understand and accept the risk of living in the wildland, and protect themselves wisely.
To pass on the responsibility to insurance or government is the new way of life. I cannot accept this. People need to have personal accountability, but in this “government will solve all your problems” world we live in, especially California, this issue will continue to drive in a circle like a boat without a captain.
I personally make damn sure I have defensible space and do what I can to harden my property. If you can’t afford to do that, maybe the WUI isn’t the place for you. Sounds harsh, but reality slaps you in the face sometimes.

[Dozer_Keith]

I would say this, as we have seen on this thread as to what can be done positively by a single individual @Oldcdfguy, evangelizing his message and getting his neighbors invested in creating a solid defensible zone in the Paradise area. Also, as @pyrogeography has shown us what the untreated regrowth in the same area is like 2 years later. Each person has the capability to prepare their respective area at their homes and businesses and begin the neighbor and neighborhood outreach. It does nobody any good if @Oldcdfguy prepares his place and the entire remainder of a neighborhood looks like what @pyrogeography showed us. None of this is easy, or instantaneous. It takes work and vigilance towards making it happen. Another example, a former BC for CalFire LNU still lives in the Deer Park area and has been extremely diligent with his defensible space. His primary residence and his second rental properties were the only two in his entire neighborhood to remain standing in the recent Glass Fire.

The political front is a difficult area to gain huge traction in. Chief Roper was able to do because of his personality and his commitment to making the residents of his jurisdiction safer. He started by working with the various city council members individually to get his message embedded and accepted. Then and only then was he successful in gaining full city council support for his message. Too often, when people try to achieve this large task, they don’t succeed because they don’t work down to each individual and learn what the specific inner workings of each individual involved. Again, this is not a once and done scenario, it takes a lot of work and a lot of commitment. And no, there isn’t always going to be a positive outcome. Additionally, we cannot continue to vote into office, at the local level, people who continue to ignore the safety of their community for perceived progress. Once again, Paradise, tragically, is a prime example of that. I have no doubt that the City Council fully believed that their choice to reduce lanes of egress and correspondingly ingress of emergency personnel in favor of a bike lane would save lives, and it might have saved a few bicyclists lives but at the expense of 86 civilians proved to not be the right answer. There is no reason why that entire City Council should not be recalled and replaced. Politicians are interested in one thing only, and that is retaining their position while they seek the next one.

If we let ourselves be at the mercy of PG&E, and city leaderships who are not invested in the safety of their citizens, we will always be at their mercy and nothing will change. WE have to be the ones that drive the change.

[AsterHacker]

Okay, casting all participation trophies aside! And going further into the firenado (in the interest of finding solutions).

How about taking a look at

1. Workplace culture

• How responsive is any given fire team to internal feedback?
• How does dominant workplace culture respond to those that are just outside it?
• How does dominant workplace culture attract or repel future leaders who can solve future problems?

2. Staying non-partisan - this is absolutely crucial for building/rebuilding public trust

3. In addition to providing clear messaging to the public especially during a disaster -
   what about consistently providing open access to vetted, independent journalists (i.e. those pros who are well aware of safety protocols). When this access is not granted, by say a team’s misuse of authority to deny journalistic access, then no matter how great the fire team does later, the public at large won’t be able to understand any of that team’s brilliance, its effective strategies, or even the heroism of a given fire op. Another way to build/rebuild public trust is to allow for the fourth estate and the 1st Amendment.

Agree 100% - absolutely cannot be at the mercy of PG&E and city leaderships not invested in the safety of their citizens. And that we “cannot continue to vote into office, at the local level, people who continue to ignore the safety of their community for perceived progress.” Which, unfortunately as someone pointed out, is happening more and more in the WUI as the population grows.

Therefore, a better and stronger rapport with the public is needed.

The 2020 wildfire season has got the greater public’s attention, if nothing else has. Now is the time to strengthen the lines of communication between fire teams and the public.

[Ehoss84]

I tell all my FF the following

“It is my job to train you and see that you safely do you’re job. You after all one day will be my replacement”

It starts with leadership and that means personal responsibility. Its the Personal Responsibility that seems to be the problem (everyone gets a trophy statement)

As for the WUI & Building in the WUI. It has been SACRAMENTO LAW & POLICY that housing density is to be increased to provide for more open space. People living in tighter & tighter places/spaces allows for mass transit, and less cars on the road with cleaner air & water(or so we are told)

Enter Covid-19 and where the mass spreading events occurred. Now cities like NYC & SF are seeing a mass exodus. Where will all those people go?

Finally, in California Property Tax laws have A LOT to do with where people choose to live. With the SALT tax cap deductions ($10,000) for State & Federal Income levels and Prop 13 laws, there is a incentive for local governments to allow more development or in the case of some So California cities infill construction. One need look no further than when an entire city block in an older community (built in the 1950’s-1980) to be rebuilt to gain increased property tax base.

There is no doubt we have to move forward, but moving forward is a minefiled of bad & worse choices.

[pyrogeography]

AsterHacker,
Welcome to the forum.
If you are willing, can you give us a brief introduction as to who you are, what you do or have done, and what part of the planet you inhabit? No pressure, but it does make it easier to read new posts/perspectives knowing something about where the author is coming from.

[itsmyjob1]

Im curious as well.

[Oldcdfguy]

@Dozer_Keith , well said and I could not agree more . We could start a long and colorful rant on what I think of the Paradise town council. Tho it took 75 years of short sighted lack of leadership or urban planning that made for the problems we ended up having. Tho the councils of late have definitely done their part unfortunately. I think small town politics are popularity contests and no more. We did not take defensible space seriously enough , at least not as a population. It was hard work and inconvenient No one really made you and fires in the past just hit the outskirts, Work and other commitments got in the way. Fill in any excuse here… And to be honest the number of absentee lot owners who finally did get their property cleaned after months of being prodded is directly responsible to the town deciding to fine you for each failed inspection. It just did not seem to matter to them anymore . I do not know what happened to civic responsibility… The stuff we do ourselves for the betterment of us all. I do not know if the system is broken or it has lost its direction. I do not know if we need to turn over a new leaf as much as understand how we got to this place.The truth is a hard thing to grasp it seems. We have lost the belief in so much of what is around us. Agendas and Movements rule the day… We are all so good at finding what is wrong with everything is hard to find the right in anything .
This discussion started for me when several of us hijacked a north complex thread talking about Salvage logging and got the mods to move it here. I wanted to understand how we got to this place and how could we get out. How do you know where your going if you do not understand where you have been, Been an re education. Why salvage logging a entire burn is not realistic, Mill capacity, The loss of tools like salvage burning and the need for the socialization of liability for private lumber. Bios Mass plants, or the lack of . The lack of leadership at all levels. The over regulated world of the USFS and the state of insanity known as California. Better fire inspections and improved WUI building codes. I have read some fantastic comments and some that I am still trying to grasp the meaning of. I understand the question better and differently than when this started and have a deeper perspective of the problems and difficulties at hand . I have grown to respect the opinions of many of you and wait to hear what gets added to this discussion ! Even if do not always understand or agree I still look forward to reading on
. I was raised on a ranch where town was 45 minutes away. You learned to be reliant on yourself and those around you and to be wary of tall talk and long fancy words from folks you don’t know. I am not waiting for the large hammer of the federal gov to fix Paradise. Nor do I think Gavin has any answers for me. I think I will keep it simple and try to live by example not by decree and do what I can. For me that is defensible space. Creating it mainly… I will finish another lot tomorrow. The last one on that street to get done. I just could not sit , watch and accept that all was lost, So I did what I knew how to. I still have my McCloud , tho a weed eater is easier, That is what I can do. Each of us has something to add to the answer. Do what you can, share your knowledge and abilities to help others . Most great notions start as small ideas…
.Believe me true…, I know and accept the risks of living in Paradise. most of us left here now do… But I am willing to work to tilt the odds a little.

Throwing in a picture of what I will finish tomorrow… if the red flag warnings expire…fire safety first

[Groveland1977]

Good start on the lot. I agree it starts local- house, block, street, town etc. One change I noticed in Butte County is that they are quick to start evacuations, which seems to be a lesson learned. I observed 3 activations for evacuations in the weeks I spent in the county working for NVADG on the NorthWest Complex. The Concow, etc. on 9/27, and the two starts in Oroville had NVADG acting and expanding to accommodate newly evacuated animals. Due to the superb actions of the fire personnel, we did not need to use most of the capacity we built.

I also note that some need some action motivators. I was in Cohassett 7-8 months after the Camp Fire and was distressed at what I saw. Very few lots were fire resistant.

As for me, I will be borrowing a McCloud and getting after the lot behind me very soon.

[Oldcdfguy]

I was catching up on reading some older discussions and ran into a topic on Hazard Mitigation that touched on many of the things we have discussed here. It is from Nov 19 . There are some really cool commentaries and worth the read if you have a few minutes. The discussions on Prescribed Fire Theory/discussion and Personal responsibility were really quite good and play into this thread nicely .

https://forums.wildfireintel.org/c/hazard-mitigation/17

or directly access

https://forums.wildfireintel.org/t/prescribed-fire-theory-discussion/10054/25

https://forums.wildfireintel.org/t/personal-responsibility/10781/26

[Oldcdfguy]

Finally got this lot done. Another half acre of Paradise cleared. I did several on this street . all would have been a similar set of pictures . Thought I would give you the before and after on this one. Maybe it would make a Example of what happens without defensible space ? Pictures worth a 1000 words right?

Before

After

Or Maybe these

Unfortunately this was fairly typical for Paradise
Brush pile gets hauled away tomorrow