Yes I remember that as well. It seems to me about the time folks started moving to the mountains to get out of the city was when it all started changing. Where I first saw the massive hiring of equipment was on the Marble Cone, and the large FIRE’s in Northern California. After those fires lots of guys were bragging how much money they made and didn’t burn any fuel. That started the influx of folks wanting in on the action and a fair way to spread the wealth followed shortly after. Of course at the same time Cal Fire and USFS realizes they needed to get a better handle on managing that equipment.
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Food for thought. Since there is no list some kind of mass text from cal fire would be great. Something like.
Calfire is filling orders for dozens and water tenders you may or may not get a call or assignment friendly reminder so you can prepair if a call comes your way. Now the way it is we have no idea to prepair crews and get machines from job sites etc
There are over 1,700 suppliers that have signed up through the 294 program. The state has not in the past or recently had a problem filling orders for various types of Hired Equipment. Even with Covid-19, there has not been a shortage of support equipment for base camp. Somewhere there seems to be a disconnect that the state is “The Customer” and not the other way around. With all of fhe the technology in 2020, there is not a shortage of intelligence sources for people to find the status of fires. From this site, to FB, Twitter, Broadcasting there is no shortage of “real time” fire intelligence/status. Finally, with Covid-19, fire season, pay, & staffing issues. It is NOT the states responsibility to notify the suppliers when orders are filled. On the contrary, it is the suppliers responsibility to remember who the customer is and in this case, the customer is ultimately the tax paying citizens that are paying to have the fire extinguished in the most cost efficient, quickest and safest way possible.
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Damn Ehoss, got a burr under your saddle.
Jim H.
Lmao
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More than just a burr! Haha
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While I agree with Ehoss, I would like to mention that there was a time when they exhausted the statewide list. 2018/19 season I believe. They actually started calling the units to see if they had equipment that was available that was not on the tier 1,23 list
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May be because that’s part of his job dealing with contractors (sorry suppliers), the good, the bad, and ugly ones.
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Thanks for the kind words.
Prior to 5/1/2020 and the new SPM, there never was a Tier 3 list in Sacramento.
Edit*
Those that were on neither T1 or T2 were not in Sacramento only at the unit level
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Yes their has been…it’s the Local Unit vendors that aren’t on either of the Tier 1 or 2 lists. So the non vets or small biz.
I’ve known Ehoss for a long time! He knows it’s all in good fun!
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I remember in 2014 or 15 they had gone through the state list 3 or 4 times looking for more equipment.
Ehoss and Smoke both know the all of the Ins and Outs of the system
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I’d say so. Yellow McCloud contractor sitting cause of no ration
I understand the concern from the contract side. And the fact that you’ve done it all, contract, FS, and CalFire… how do you feel that most agencies regulations call to use agency before contract? And with the weird season because of covid we have outa state orders getting canceled because they come from a “quote un quote” RED ZONE!
I’m not sure about the out of state requests. I do know there are hotshot crews still going out of state. As far as agency resources before contracted resources…the biggest reason is because they can usually get there quicker, they are more consistent with the continuing training and the agency resources know what the agency wants. Not saying contractors don’t know or aren’t good, it’s just not as consistent. Even with the different agencies, they will use each other’s resources first because once again, usually quicker and also with a lot of the mutual aid agreements the first 24 hours are free. At least in my previous experience, not all mutual aid agreements are written the same.
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I agree, yet it is written in the SOPs to use agency before contract. And yes hot shots are still going outa state. And I’m terms of covid and cross pollination who is worse? A 20 person crew in 10 rooms 2 trucks, or a 3-4 person dozer in 3-4 rooms in 2-3 trucks?
There are a couple of things which were common in years prior to this one, is that you would see agency dozers paired with CWN in a ST configuration. There are a couple of advantages doing that: 1.) The agency dozers can be spread across multiple incidents better while maintaining control factors; 2.) There is a consistent ability to ensure that CWN contract holders are maintaining their equipment and are providing proficient trained operators. The second thing is that CWN dozers would backfill into CF stations and would be IA dispatched. Generally, these were either former HFEO’s or Tier 1 contractors with a strong record with the Unit. They would be dispatched using their E number identifier.
This year is going to be different most likely, although, nothing is a solid any longer, with the retirement of the rotation list and most certainly COVID. Through nobody’s fault, COVID has introduced some very problematic issues. Only time will tell if the utilization of these work throughs and arounds will be able to be used this year with these two very complex issues. As with anything, assume nothing, learn as much as you can about how your local unit is operating and above all, have a lot of patience and perseverance. I don’t believe anyone is deliberately trying to put anyone’s livelihood at risk or trying to isolate CWN resources away from the action. These new rules are a learning curve for everyone and COVID didn’t help in any way either.
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The 3 was a typo my bad, I know you know your stuff, I was making little joke because you were on a roll there. So it is rare but Sac has actually gone through the list several times trying to fill more orders than they had answers to their calls.
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LOL thanks, yes I was actually a train the trainer instructor for the Dozer Manager position that was created after the fiasco with dozers in 1970. Before ICS. Naturally when we switched to ICS I was on the cadre for The Dozer strike team leader class then. Hired equipment Tech spec on team before promoting to BC then Ops on a team. I have been impressed with the great people I met in the contract dozer world. 98% of them are anxious to do a good job and willing to take any assignment I gave them. I think like any thing else the entire group suffers from the action of few bad apples, and for that reason the stigma has been hard to erase.
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Like any organization 80/20 or more like 90/10 these days.
90% of the work is done by 10% of the people
The inverted is true as well
10% can ruin it for the other 90%.
I was fortunate to have been taught/worked for some of the original members of the DOGS group over the years. Very well-versed in the “Red Dozer/Blue Dozer” program that BDU/RRU/MVU use to follow as described by an "Old SFR-1"
. I was asked in 95’ by a HEC if I could make 1 change to the program. My answer was MORE TRAINING. IMHO There is no reason not to require S131, S190, L180 as baseline courses for CWN resources. A 5yr plan to implement would be needed. But it would make the 8hr safety course a true REFRESHER. Requiring more from the Drivers/Operators would go a long way to seperate the contenders from the pretenders.
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