Not to be that guy, but will be great job however no shrouds down, we need to lead by example!!!
Really. They look pretty safe.
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I do understand what you are saying BUT, did you have your shroud down on every fire when you were a FF-FC? The answer is no.
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It’s all perspective… my guess is they didn’t feel like they needed them… at least they have goggles on their helmets.
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I can’t be responsible for any of the PPE that they are or aren’t wearing. I hate shooting scenes in which people then call out things that are wrong. I feel like shit for posting. My eye is for the fire and the personnel. I can say that this was a very safe firing op with a 2 track dozer line and black all around. This was a few acre island they were burning out. Not an excuse… just FYI
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I agree with the leading by example part but, it didn’t look like they were taking that much heat. It seems to me that CDF always rocks the shroud even when not needed.
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Let’s say it’s a structure fire. Are we suppose to be masked up and on air OUTSIDE the structure and away from the IDLH?? Give it a rest and get back on topic. Great photos.
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Lol not to be that guy…but you are that guy… can we keep it fire info please, seriously.
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We don’t need snipers on this site. Let the experts work.
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PPE discussion should be taken to the discussion thread! Not IA- speaking of following…
MODS help us out
This is a new running thread for all off-topic discussion on PPE, or lack thereof, what is appropriate and when, etc, etc.
Note: I have not figured out a way to copy posts as we were able to do in v-bulletin before, so I have not included the original picture from the MVU-Rangeland thread.
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Great photo, but I agree with Lead by example, been in the service for 20+ years and yes I was the guy that on many occasions didn’t have my gloves on or shroud down Unit the day a small fire jumped up and bit me. I now carry a reminder on the back of my neck on why shrouds are on the helmet and I as a captain now show my new firefighter what not wearing all your PPE even on a simple fire can do, all it take is a wind shift or and air drop to kick up something and thing can go wrong.
As a dept photog for 17 something years as a side gig, I always run into this as well. Amazing picture that can tell a story in one shot, but the lead character has a major flaw in their PPE. An independent photographer can certainly run with it and have no guilt. But as an inside person and potentially a coworker, my photo can probably get them in trouble later.
BUT - and here’s the kicker - rules/procedures in this industry are written in blood or seared in flesh. Sorry for that mental image, but it’s reality. After a few years I no longer cared if my photo got someone in trouble. Everyone is their own safety officer. If you feel safe and you’re honest with yourself, then great. Sometimes PPE can hang some people up on a procedure (shroud/goggles limiting situational awareness etc.) so they weigh the risks and go with one decision instead of the “SOP”. If they can’t honestly defend their decision with themselves or to their chief officer if called out, then that’s on them.
A photo is also a snapshot of 1/500th of a second. You don’t see what happens the other 499/500th’s of that second, or the seconds before or after. A great photog can tell a huge story in that amount of time. But the viewer can’t see if the officer yelled at the FF a few seconds later to put their gloves on or goggles.
Firing off the side of a state highway on TGU-Lanes earlier this year. 4ft off the pavement, tight goggles and shroud. These BTU guys didn’t know me so maybe they went full PPE “for the media” or maybe he realizes he’s leaning over fuel with flame licking his boot and is one unseen-hole-in-the-ground stumble away from faceplanting into his own fire. In the end, you are your own safety officer.
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In my past experience on a handcrew shrouds we’re not always down. It depended on the situation. I primarily had shroud down & goggles on grass fires because of direct heat and intense smoke. And yes when using my drip torch. But in the end it’s a practice that should be applied. Like a seatbelt.
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My issue is my 7 3/4 size noggin that most shrouds won’t fit around. Or if they do, I sweat so much that I end up waterboarding myself. To solve this, I wear a structural fire fighting hood instead. I crisped my ears a couple times throughout my career. That was enough
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I’m another firm believer in proper PPE when needed. There were plenty of times that I was cold-trailing behind an engine mobiling along where I was wearing safety sunglasses and my shroud was rolled up, but I had everything ready to go if I needed to bump up. I felt that it was safe enough that I didn’t need my shroud down.
There was also the time that I had full PPE on, shroud down, goggles on, and everything down and locked, IYKWIM, and I still got the tip of my nose toasted, because the wind shifted and blew the fire back on me as I was mobiling on the nozzle in standing grain.
The point is that it’s up to the individual to determine whether he needs the shroud down and fastened; goggles or safety glasses; or full pack or just a fire shelter on a belt.
I will go with the trend here and say PPE is indeed very important but is a shroud needed from stepping off the truck til you get released? Maybe. Fire is not a static thing it changes thus should you change and adapt with it. I always have my shroud with me but as I asses the fire I decide if that is a situation it’s needed in or not.
If the guy next to me drops his I’m not going to berate him for shrouding up in say cold trailing a peat fire, if that is what he wants to feel safe and comfortable hey do it, I’ll likely stop and reassess and see what is going on that “hey maybe I should drop mine too.”
That’s just my .02
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