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General Discussion
#21

Now also :point_up: This a million times over. I am in the middle. I’m not an old timer but I’m not a new guy. Honestly, I don’t know why anyone stays that’s young enough to get out. Do I still love it? Sure. Do I get tired of my kids saying “see you when I see you dada” when I go to work. You’re damn right I do. Especially cause that’s not just in summer. That’s all year. Unless I have vacation there is no promise I’m coming home anytime soon.

And couple that with the fact that more is expected of us all the time. Everything is data driven now so there are more reports, more emails, more presentations, more justifications. That all results in less training, less PT, less down time.

I keep thinking the system will break. But I must say if one tradition has held in the fire service is the stubborn ability of us all to bend, bend, bend, maybe crack a little, but not break. Then again, everything is data driven, and the numbers tell me that what we are seeing is not sustainable.

11 Likes
#22

We’ve seen quite a few younger folks head to PGE Fuels and Transmission, and lots to Utility corridor related work (arborists, hazard fuels, mastication and construction).

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#23

Cal Fire has many contract cities in its ranks. Local governments (Mayors, City Council Members, and City Managers) are starting to make noise when either they see equipment short in numbers in their jurisdiction or personnel that are forced on for days, weeks, month and are sleep deprived day after day. Accidents waiting to happen, especially in heavy call load cities, stations. Cal Fire is also losing many great personnel to LG municipality departments due to work week, 72 vs 56 etc., and family life balance issues. Marital and Mental Health impacts are becoming a huge issue. Times are changing rapidly! [quote=“Capt4711, post:8, topic:21969, full:true”]
I am seeing a lot of reasons why LG can’t provide bodies but let us start with CF and why didn’t the other Units fill orders?
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#24

Utility forestry jobs are union, with good benefits, even when working for the major utility contractors like Mountain Enterprises. PG&E’s annual budget for vegetation management in California is close to $1.7 BILLION. That’s 4x times the total revenue in the State’s forestry and logging sector. A decade ago, I don’t think anyone could have imagined what a huge influence the utilities would have on wage competition within the entire forestry sector, including wildfire.

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#26

For sure, I remember a few years ago when the Arborist went Union and received the wage bump. All of a sudden every white truck around had a utility tree work sticker on it.

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#27

Speaking of staffing the ambulance for the Washburn fire was short staffed. Caught that during the call for a check up after someone got hit with a branch. they were ok.

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#28

YNP ambulances are crossed staff with LE and FFs. Hat of many feathers up there

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#29

You’re right, they’re lucky they haven’t had any real competition from other fires for resources. But a new challenge is just starting to emerge. With the FS using straight call when needed contracts for its type 1s this year there’s been concern that the operators could leave at any point for greener pastures. It seems like that fear is starting to be realized. Last night there was word that 4 heavies currently working for the FS have signed contracts with cal fire and would be leaving. Hearing that three of the sky cranes assigned to Washburn are in that boat. Hopefully they’ll be able to find vendors willing to finish out the season, or at the very least the fire. Don’t mean to get too off topic here but losing half of the heavies could put a damper on suppression efforts

8 Likes
CA-YNP-Washburn?
#30

Don’t think it would be a significant impact. Fed and calfire aerial assets often work on the same incidents regardless of jurisdiction. Outside of CA it could pose a problem.

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#31

I don’t want to go too far off in the weeds on a fire thread about how the feds losing tanked type ones on So Cal contracts could be an issue or how losing the old reliable vendors and ending up with less reliable outfits if any could lead to some issues. Feds and state play nice until they don’t. But to bring it back, losing 3 out of 5 tanked heavies on a fire that they’re starting to make some progress on could very easily reverse some of the gains they’ve made. Cal fire isn’t bringing them on contract and keeping them at the fire. They’ll be gone when they start their contracts or when they go into the hangers to modify configuration for the contract.

1 Like
#32

What is type ones are you talking about? The C-130s?

#33

The rotor wings. Helitankers

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#34

We’re all tax payers in the end. Whether or not you fight fire or don’t. Grab a Pulaski or a keyboard. It’s your choice. I personally don’t understand why the “FS” is being brought up on a “NPS” situation. Let’s get things straight. Smh……

#35

Because every helicopter on the fire is FS besides the park ship. That’s 12 of the 13 according to the iap posted earlier.

1 Like
#36

Feds need to get their act together with contracts. Same goes for fixed wing. The new fixed wing contracts are going to be a joke, hopefully none of the contractors bid on it. The only way companies get money to build or research new platforms is with EU contracts, not CWN. Can’t go to the bank and ask for money with anything but EU, and they are drifting away from EU.

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#37

The FS is a mess politically. A perfect example is the SoCal chief (OCFA) bringing up the 3 HT’s that LaCo., OCFA & VNC had on EU to the Dixie and Caldor and they were not used. Sat for 3 days B4 chief pulled them. We could have used them on my division. Calling for HT’s and getting none available.

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#38

Showing up to a fire with unrequested Helicopters is no different than showing up with unrequested Engines, Dozers, or Water Tenders.

Frowned up to say the least.

The QRF ships are paid for 165 days in an EU agreement from each agency with Coulson. That EU guarantees 4hr per day, 7 days per week. SCE pays for approx 80% of the EU costs with the remaining 20% being picked up by the 3 County’s.

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#39

And not just that minor detail, but introducing a major paradigm shift to night operations, safety, logistics etc. in the middle of a major working incident. SoCal may be used to night time ops, but are the rest of the resources north of the ANF and lower LPF? That entire “package” of night-time aerial suppression, showing up on your door unsolicited, in the middle of a major incident, with a slight hint of political pressure, has the risk assessment off the charts. Don’t skip the crawl and walk and go straight to run.

And I agree the EU contract fiasco with aircraft is absurd. Out of one corner of the mouth the feds want to modernize the fleet to get away from airframes from the 50+ year old airframes. Out of the other corner of their mouth they want lower EU costs, squeezing nearly every cent of profit out of a 3-5yr EU contract, or refuse EU and just want CWN. And as arex says, the bank wants to see long term safe revenue before lending money to modernize the fleet. And considering these vendors are primarily small businesses, there’s not a lot of reserve cash to just buy a new 412 or 429 in hopes of 2-3 consecutive 4yr EU contracts.

Edit: unsolicited night ops was referencing Caldor fire and politics that followed, but the EU contract issues support the discussion of the helitankers chasing a safer financial investment with other customers vs the CWN job they may be on currently.

5 Likes
#40

I’m a bit confused. How do Helitankers tie into unsolicited night time aerial ops showing up at a fire? Maybe I am blending the comments too much.

#41

That was in reference to the QRF arriving at the Caldor unsolicited from So Cal
HT 47 OCFA
HT 55 LAC
HT 61 VNC
With Firewatch 76

6 Likes