Ok because as I know it HT’s are not night flying aircraft anywhere yet, but I am retired😎
It was a little confusing
Are the S-61s and CH-47s considered Helitankers or only the S-64 Sky Cranes? I know the S-61 and CH-47s are type ones.
The Coulson/SCE/OCFA/LACoFD/VNC QRF helicopters are night flying.
Dang it, missed Ehoss’ post, same info.
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Ok Type 1s not HTs
Tank vs bucket. You can have Type 1 rotor as either. Tanked aircraft are more valuable in urban/occupied areas which the FAA determines is a congested area. Buckets are considered an external load and cannot fly over congested areas. That means bucket aircraft have to ferry to the scene, then land to deploy the bucket, then find a suitable dip that avoids traversing congested/populated areas.
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I have to ask why wouldnt you use the Coulson fleet on the Caldor? Seriously professional program. Put politics aside. Its an assett hat had no need in the south due to weather so why not get them in the fight up north? Reminds me of some conversations about the FIRIS program when it first started.
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It has to do with how they are contracted AJ. The EU for QRF is LG and not State or Fed. Even though each county is a Contracted county for the protection of SRA. The Gray Book that funds each county has Appendix A aircraft that includes the LG AHJ as well as Closest Resources for fixed wing on SRA Mission that includes the standard 1 AA, 2 AT 1 T2 Helicopter. The QRF resources are paid for 80% of the standby time with a SCE grant and each county is responsible for the remaining 20%. Each county BOS has to agree to pay for the 20% which totaled $100,000+ for each ship. The counties want to be able to send the QRF to EVERY IA fire regardless of LRA or SRA. If SRA, they want the ships paid for from the 09 fund without prior authorization. With last year being so slow in the south(normal) the QRF wanted more flight hours in the meter. So you get what happened. This year, the QRF is funded for 165 days and CF has funded 13 T1 Helicopter for this year and the next 3yr. From Sacramento perspective, they don’t want to be paying for another agency’s fire suppression outside of the CFMA or MMA.
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Tell that to someones home is about to burn down… nobody cares about all the contract crap when homes are threatened. Thats why people hate govt. Instead of just making it work when we have the largest fires in history we pull out a stack of paper that tells us why we cant.
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The MMA / CFMA is the process to follow. If someone’s house is about to burn, there have been MANY lost opportunities prior to the urgency. As someone who deals with this, I can state a majority of the time the CFMA process is not activated soon enough to get the resources in place that are needed. There are AHJ’s out there that “roll the dice” and decide not to have a Wildland Protection Agreement (WPA) in place till its too late. Then there are other AHJ’s that contract for the Protection of thousands of acres of LRA with a WPA and get a High Wildland Dispatch every time.
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Again, so the AHJ rolls the dice, makes a mistake, underestimates whatever they F-UP we still dont try and make it work during the incident? We have a unique opportunity to put some highly sophisticated aircraft to work and dont because of document? They fly up there and sit? Its not like they just popped up our of nowhere as new kid on the block. Its coulson already funded and carded program. I guess my point is we had a.gnarly year and why not try and make it work.
Think back to your VFC days when all kinds of POV’s responded to a call and the lack of accountability AJ. Now add the 3rd dimension of aircraft. As stated in another post. Outside of the ANF, and the 4 southern contract counties, night flying helicopters doesn’t occur. Even OCFA, LAC, VNC, & SBC all land and refill at pre-designed helispots. You are 100% correct about Coulson and all the Technology being used. But Last year was the FIRST year of the QRF, of night hover filling from pre-designed and mapped water sources. The leg work and logistics that went into the GIS and the Maping of utilities, approach vectors, etc was all done prior and it training continued all season. For OCFA Chief to take the QRF to the Caldor unrequested. Is no different then when WE STARTED and POV"d to calls.
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Big difference they went up there to get into the fight. They didnt show up and start dropping without approval. They sat waiting.
We talk a big game in CA about innovation and progression and say shit like “think outside the box” then when it comes time to doing it we drop the anchor.
I see that as a huge missed opportunity.
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And I see it as political gamesmanship with approximately $35,000 per flight hour bill attached. The grant for SCE for 2022 is $18 million for 165 days or $109,090 per day or $36,000+ per flight hour for the guaranteed 4hr per day. This does not include the money each county has also put into the program.
SCE is paying millions of $$$ to protect the lives, property, and infrastructure of LAC, OC, VNC and their rate payers. SCE doesn’t to my knowledge have rate payers or infrastructure in the Tahoe Basin.
I will go back to my original point. The QRF WAS NOT REQUESTED by the IMT in charge. The QRF just arrived and when they weren’t put to work. They made it political by going to the media.
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@Ehoss84 I thought they did get a couple reps in though but got released within a few days but it was just one ship that got used dropping.
Your comment about SCE having zero skin in the game in nor cal kind of caught me off guard. They are there to help.
An NGO cant be benevolent? Just like they have sent lineman to norcal to help a get other companies infrastructure back up after disasters I dont see how this is any different. Are they gonna get compensated? Sure.
They got reps in on days 4-6 I believe and 1 night of drops. As for the NGO being Benevolent, they are one of the BIG 3 utilities in California that have been responsible for lives lost and billions in damages. Each utility is doing something different
SDGE/Semper is funding 2 T1 and 1 T2 ship
SCE is funding the QRF
PG&E has a 60 engine plus pvt fire dept.
NON OF THEM ARE BENEVOLENT AND ALL 3 ANSWER TO SHAREHOLDERS. With one of them being deemed TO BIG TO FAIL. SCE had to approve the QRF going north. Did they do that from benevolence or was it an effort to save some money? I don’t know.
What I do know is this, we BOTH started as volunteers in Bat 15 25+yr ago. Both of us are professional FF that get paid for a living. I NEVER ask anyone to work work for free, let alone risk their lives for free. At the end of the day, the JP5 bill has to get paid.
Coulson as the owners of the QRF would’ve been the ultimate Benevolent ones as the owners of the ships and I don’t think they were going up there as volunteers.
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What i meant by benevolent is they could have just as much sat in the mist in so cal vs flying up north. But they decided to go north and I have to believe because they thought they could help out in anyway to make a bad situation maybe a tiny bit better not
For pure profits. Of Course coulson/edison should be paid for their efforts.
But im sure everyone is tired of reading two old farts who happen to be friends arguing out in the street. Instead tell me how much you love ATAK lol.
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Just a FYI, I worked both night MRBs on the Caldor. With just one or two exceptions, there was little night flying done do to lack of visibility at the MRBs. Neither MRB was in a location where clear air was available on a regular basis. Then, when there was a fire start down south, the company pulled up stakes and left, almost with no warning. This happened just as the fire crossed the road in Tahoe.
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I do need to cl you my ATAK isn’t working & I screwed ot up:rofl:
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Except that there wasn’t mist above Lake Isabella. If my memory is correct, the French Fire started in or near SCE territory while the QRF was in Tahoe. Seems they could have used them there. But then, my memory could be faulty.