Terrorist Vs. Arsonists

Let me preface this with, I know this X user has a history that some might call unsavory. But it does bring up and important topic. His post and the video attached to the bottom of it rings something I have long discussed to friends and colleagues.

Every time I see or hear of a domestic terrorism attack, this runs through my mind, especially in SoCal.

We all know that terrorist pray on our fears almost more than the act itself. What causes more fear and panic than not only 1 large wildfire…but multiple. Look at what these 3 fires in SoCal have done from everything from lost time at work, mass evacuations causing the public to freak out and leave their homes and businesses, traffic chaos, closed communities, millions lost in commerce and all the fire families that have to have their loved ones gone for extended periods of time. Not to mention the actual costs of all the fires combined. Firefighting costs and damage from just these 3 fires will run into the hundreds of millions. if not a billion dollars.

What if this post opens us to a topic that we all fear could become a reality? The thought of a terrorist group figuring out fire weather and how to use it against all of us. Could you imagine a group of terrorists/arsonist staging in various locations all across the southland waiting for the exact moment a strong Santa Ana starts? Imagine 5-10 Cedar or Camp Fires all starting at once from BDU, through RRU and into SDU. We have already seen this happen on one of the border fires last year. One of the cams clearly showed at least 8 starts on different parts of the mountain that all started within seconds of each other. Now these were almost certainly caused by “international travelers” and the fires caused no real issues.

Folks on this site have already expressed the extremely odd timing and locations of these 3 fires. Not only in location but dates. What if this was a coordinated plan during the hottest week in 4 years?

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

https://x.com/hotshot_movie/status/1834295661606424647?s=46

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I’m not saying this is related at all, but insurance companies have been terminating home owner and fire insurances in California which just makes this problem a bigger highlight because the conditions are extremely bad and resources are over extended.

Also, anyone who commits arson should also be charged with animal cruelty due to the thousands of animals they needlessly kill in the process

Also, here is an interactive map of Allstate homeowner insurance increases per zip code in CA:
https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2024/california-home-insurance-costs-map/

This proposal was approved today.

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Unfortunately, animal cruelty is a specific intent crime where as the prosecution would have to show that the defendant intended to harm such animals. I agree with you, but not likely to happen.

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https://fox40.com/news/local-news/butte-county/cal-fire-arrests-northern-california-butte-county/

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On May 5, 1945, 6 people including 5 children were killed by a Japanese “Balloon bomb”. One of many sent over to the United States and Canada to terrorize and start fires in the forested lands.

Terrorism by fire is not new to this country, only forgotten history. Internet search will bring up many stories of balloon bombs coming into our country even though only a few caused damage. The government tried to keep information suppressed so as not to cause panic.

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I have always figured this was a real possibility, but did not want to put it out for all to read and get ideas. Nevertheless somebody was bound to figure it out eventually.

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Birken_Vogt,
I’ve always been concerned that this subject would get brought up and discussed “too much.” There is history and agencies have discussed it, but not in the open, always behind closed doors. I am all for free speech but the last thing we want is any kind of specific information, ideas, theories, or instructions discussed in an open forum. I am not stupid – and understand that all it takes is dedicated research by a group. My concern is that the SMEs that are contributors on this site are really smart but could accidentally advance significant development that could lead to attempts to transition from the theoretical to operational testing, just by throwing out or sharing what you think are even semi-plausible ideas.
So, I would hope that anyone who walks into this dark room (metaphorically representing this subject area) and wanting to be helpful and shed more light on the subject, doesn’t light a match only to then see a 704 placard reading 4-4-4 with 1.1 labelled boxes. Proceed with caution folks.

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Actually, I think a person with bad intent can get far more suggestive ideas watching television than on this thread. I cannot believe the plots and methods these tv writers come up with.

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Im ZERO percent into limiting speech. It means i get to hear & see things that i don’t approve or agree with and things i do agree/approve of. On this topic i have to ask - what are we doing here? Why we doing this? We must truly be a species of Amnesia. Humans have been using fire for good and un-nice reasons against each other since humans began. DO we in this space really need to deep dive how nasty we are and can be & have been recently with fire? Fire’s effects in these ways are not an unknown to the good actors OR bad un-nicers, it may be to you/us because we have such short lifespans and history is written by the winners. Yep, i could have swiped left / kept it moving right on by this thread but didnt. I want to use the famous Star Wars referece regarding fear, anger etc and where it can lead but i wont. Imo topics such as this one are very sharply angled towards an un-nice direction more than it leans towards the good. Partly because of time/place and partly for other reasons already stated by IMT_Geek et al…

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I agree sir. I knew the topic would be taboo to a certain extent but I’m no Dr Evil by any means. I can’t be the 1st schlep rock to think of this. :rofl:

And if I am……I want 1 million dollars🤔

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Oh I’ve been saying this for a few years now. It’s a perfect tool of terrorism. It brings fear and chaos to the general population.

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I do not think a discussion of the possibility of something like this happening increases the chance of it occurring, because ‘evil’ is motivated by ‘evil’ itself and will manifest in whatever form it chooses. It should be discussed as a threat matrix on a personal level because many people do not think that fire could ever impact them on a personal level, whether because they do not live in a WUI zone or hubris in general. Moreover, the additional M4.7 earthquake this morning in Southern California should be a reminder to everyone to be prepared for the unknown, the profound, and the shocking. San Francisco in 1906 is a good example. Half of the ‘preparation’ mantra is mental.

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There are plenty of western language terror propaganda materials produced by Al queda and isis that suggests the use of fire as a weapon. So this is far from an idea we are going to give anyone.

End of report.

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Terrorism is the unlawful use of violence or threats against a public or state for political gain or to coerce. It’s characterized by the use of fear to create a wide audience of victims, rather than just the direct ones. Motive is the deciding factor when it comes to the legal process.

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After couple of replies I think my comments are being misinterpreted. Please don’t hear what I didn’t say. What I did say was ,"…the last thing we want is any kind of specific information, ideas, theories, or instructions discussed in an open forum…" Okay, after the TV writers comment I could say I wish they would follow their ideas, instructions, and theories because that would set them back decades until they figure out how to get a meteor to crash into an airplane in flight that then crashes and starts a fire next to their camp.
I didn’t ask people to not discuss the possibility, as I stated, that is known. All I was asking is restraint on some specifics. There are SME contributors in fuel, weather, topography, and resources on this thread. It is well known that bad actors are always looking for methods to advance theoretical concepts to operationalize them. All I was stating is leaving out some specifics like instructions built into a discussion as part of trying to explain a concept. Things like …“use ___, wait for ____, then do this ____” are the kinds of specifics I was talking about - that’s all. As was stated, it’s been tried before, it’s known, documented, and sure it’s possible - it is nothing new… Let’s not give anyone – foreign or domestic – a leg up or boost by diving into specifics. When you have a collection of great experts on a common topic it can easily happen. That’s all. Just trying to avoid the phrase seen in an occasional brief, “They learned how to by following the ideas and suggestions they found on the internet.”

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From 2012:

https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/al-qaeda-fire-bomb-fails-cal-fires-test/

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That article kind of shows what I figured, these nut cases are not that smart or effective normally. Heaven help us if they get so but hopefully if intelligent then they give up on destroying things and act in a productive manner. 9/11 was a rare example of when they succeeded in a big way, there have been many other examples when they did not succeed.

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