The aftermath beyond the destruction.

[Firedude52]

After retirement and living in the WUI I got to experience the other side of the fence. I was evacuated twice due to fires. Not fun. I as many also experienced property insurance issues. Some of my friends/neighbors were advised their policies were not going to renew and we were having issues finding new carriers.
It’s gotten worse over the past few years and the current events are just going to magnify the issues.

I finally sold my lace on the mountain and bailed. (due to health issues). Bought a place in the valley. I had a heck of a time finding homeowner ins. Luckily we have a friend in the business that helped us find new coverage. In the process we learned just how hard that can be. So many companies are no longer writing policies in Ca. and those who do insurance is gonna cost you an arm and leg. After the horrendous losses with the current fires things will just get much worst. It was bad already, but about to get much worse affecting everyone no matter where you live.

Then comes weather concern IF we ever get rain. Just more to add to the misery bucket.

[bagger69]

I’d like to be optimistic we see massive involvement with the CA Fire Safe Council and Firewise with defensible space, and most critically, home hardening programs like we have seen in the north of the state. With every disaster comes a unique opportunity to push reactive policy, and I see no exception with the destruction caused this time when people in power (politicians and the 0.1% oligarch) are affected. I would be less optimistic if this fire nuked through another small, isolated community – respectfully.

We saw changes in the CA Forest Practice Rules in the 1973 with Z’Berg-Nejedly, the early 1990s with the Timber Wars, and increasing fuels management exemptions from mass fires of the last 10 years. The state has outlined the policy for fuels management, now we need to meaningfully enact and upgrade the communities at risk with holistic home hardening.

The only way is up. Hopefully my comments aren’t too opinionated for here.

[secret_mtn]

2017 my homeowner insurance was cancelled because we still had one section of the house with shakes. 2018 we replaced those with metal, and the company still refused to grant us a policy.

The Dixie fire swept through my property, destroyed roughly 65% of the timber, but spared my house. This is beyond lucky for me, while so many of my neighbors lost everything on their property.

The insurance industry is collapsing. The public has not yet caught on to this, and the implications thereof.

[XPFW]

Maybe this thread could evolve in some meaningful discussion on steps that can be taken to minimize future disasters such as these present conflagrations.

I was wondering for example, the feasibility of a home water shutoff valve - similar in function and design to the Pacific Seismic Shutoff valve (which almost all homes and businesses are now fitted with) for natural gas.

It seems to me that such a device equipped with a frangible link could save untold gallons of water once a connection is overrun by a high-heat source. This could minimize some of the water main loss from property to property as water flows through the open butt ( yes - that’s a term) as the fire progresses.

Another thought would be to have standby generators at each critical pump station to take over when the primary power sources are de=energized.
Both these ideas could serve us somewhat when we suffer the next earthquake and/or conflagration.

Having offered this, I realize that water supply is only a part of the equation in this current situation - and is being overblown IMHO by some.

[wfapdude]

Insuring against acts of nature is bananas. The fact that our civilization at this point in time needs a system that advocates/promotes the insurance industrial complex is un-fortunate to say the least. Fire & Flood & Earthquakes are normal in Ca and elsewhere. What is not normal even though it’s become normalized are; High concentrations of humans with poorly oriented and constructed infrastructure. Living in the head’s, heel’s, saddles & drainages of our nations most critical & fire prone danger areas. Even 99% percentile fires happen. The volcanoes we live & play on will erupt again, etc. Humans don’t seem to be able to learn this lesson the easy way. Fires & large loss of life because of fires have happened to humans since humans came on the scene. “We” the people & our elected officials at all levels have legislated & committed ourselves into these situations. People that live in fire country usually know that someday “it” could happen. Well, “someday” is always happening to someone in our fire prone ecosystems around the globe. In the near term id like to see that anyone who gets assistance and/or aid should not be taxed by IRS. Id like to see fund raising companies stop charging lame fees just to help someone in need - all $ needs to go to victims/recovery period. Id like to see our “firesafe councils” in all fire prone counties stand down for a re-calibration for the future climate/fire risks. Id like us to adopt construction requirements similar to what is required by Australian authorities. Id also like to see a re-design and re-calibration of how we can facilitate faster AND safer evacuation on larger scales when needed. I’d also like to see a paradigm change in how we talk and teach fire behavior / fire history and it needs to start with all reporters/journalists and legislative officials. I would volunteer my time to teach, it’s that important! The things being said by the adults in charge - at all levels - is terrible and keeps us in a repeating loop of hubris. Enough from me. My list is really long because i know humans will only want to build back “better/stronger” in the same areas and that means we will once again repeat history. I hope our 1st responders and displaced citizens will have some time to catch their breath & find safe footing before the floods happen in these same areas…

[CharlieOneSeven]

I wonder if the future is to change building codes these areas to using basically concrete and glass on structures. We have made some huge inroads into changing vegetation around structures to be less likely to spread to the homes. But when the primary fuel is structures, having a limbed up oak tree in your yard or not isn’t going to make a lick of difference.

[BIGRIG]

There have been significant changes already since Paradise, Title 14 changes “significant” (access and water supply, green belts for new subdivisions & LRA very high severity zones
for locals) and Title 24 code updates!

It will eventually make it to you cant build or rebuild in SRA or LRA Very High severity zones!

I’m sure this will add to the equation

[arff]

The points you make have some validity. Just how big is government going to get so they can dictate everything about our lives ?

If you ban living in all the fire prone areas, unless you plan on eliminating a large population, we will have no place to raise food because that flat area in some states will be where you moved the population to.

Changes need to keep happening, but not by dictating. That has never ended well in this country.

[DirtTrower]

I think you have a couple of really good ideas. We have seen recently and in the past the effects of water flowing freely after a structure is lost. Multiply that by hundreds or more structures and the hydrants go dry. Many of the municipal water systems have standby generators to run the pumps, but the pumps are usually low volume and not designed to support the water needs of a urban conflagration.

[ajohansson]

Yup the where is the line for governance? which is why I keep going back to personal/community responsibility. There is a LA Fire Safe Council, these communities and stake holders are informed. These areas see fire frequently and this is a community issue not a government problem. Living in the land of the free comes with risk. If we come from this about caring about our neighbors we will win, if we dont then history will repeat itself as the current building codes don’t do well against structure to structure ignition. Listened to Tim Chavez on @pyrogeography podcast and he talked about the urban/ornamental vegetation creep even after communities rebuild. In 30 years are we right back where we started? Palms that aren’t trimmed? Pepper Trees? yada yada. So with the mindset of “will my home and improvements and landscape prove a hazard to my neighbor?” and mitigating appropriately then we can all win, but if we don’t do this as a majority it wont be enough. You harden your home and nobody else does in a tightly built community its not gonna work. If you live on larger parcels with greater structure separating well you can control this much better. So back to where I started, where is the line of the government and personal/community responsibility?

[Theomeister]

I’ve been wondering about a few things on this topic, as they relate to structure loss.
Structure hardening: How did earthquake retrofits come to be mandatory for certain commercial/residential buildings? The current building code is a lot better, but has (almost) no impact on existing homes. I heard it brought up many times in my local City government as a home hardening solution, but then there’s silence when I ask how we get current homes to comply. It’s a huge task to retrofit, and I’m guessing it’s a basic issue of freedom and legality, with some equality thrown in, that we haven’t mandated it yet. I’ve been trying to get a local hardening ordinance brought forth, but so far just $100 for 100 homes for basic hardening activities (gap filling, door sweeps, and vent screens). What could be done with retrofits on a larger scale than the current middling work here and there, and a few CAL FIRE pilot grant projects? How could we revalue spending money on fuels treatments at critical points versus home hardening at critical points?
Community fire walls: is there a good way to create discontinuities among dense stands of decadent structures? Should we start classifying neighborhoods like we do fuels and vegetation? How much help is a small wall among running through a community to ward off IR and reduce convective heating and ember wash?

[bootstrap]

I’ve kicked around the same idea. The valve would need an override in case someone ignores evacuation orders or can’t escape and needs the water to make a last stand

[Backpacker]

Wow. This was a monster. I used to live in the middle of what will now be the Palisades scar. Got some friends down there, know those canyons and fire roads well. We’re breathing a little easier tonight, but can’t think about aftermath while the math is still counting. The aftermath will go on for a while.

I just want to thank every single firefiighter, fire truck, aircraft and pilot, the guys on the scanner, the ktla & kabc helicopters, who let me see the tremendous work going down. I applaud them, along with the thousands of people working overtime behind the scenes, the citizens of LA who are helping each other survive these first traumatic few days.

I’d also like to thank this forum for helping me find the relevant resources. Best luck to you all.

[Strikeamatch]

BREAKING NEWS: Kevin Kiley Accuses Gavin Newsom Of Lying About Forest Management As Wildfires Rage

The fire service has an affinity for the leadership phrase “extreme ownership.” It is time for those in power to be accountable for their failures - LA City, LA County and State officials all had this happen on their watch and should take responsibility. While we may look for someone at the top to blame, all of us should be looking inside ourselves. Who among us complains about project work? Who complains about running the saws or chippers or just wants to have the day for training or pt? We are all just as responsible as those at the top. When we finally buy in to the work that is necessary, and will continue to be for the next 30-50 years, we can finally start to make some headway on our piece to this massive puzzle. This representative has some cold, hard truth that we all must take a bit of ownership for.

[GSW1]

As they do damage assessment they gather information on the structure itself and it’s construction and from that evolved chapter 7A in Title 24 Building Code, as these are not your typical homes I’m sure we will see changes in the code before the next cycle.

[NSilver]

The goal of insurers is make money and lots off it. Payouts are no what they want.

[EDCFae]

As I am down here on the line working, all I can say is this is really really sad and these folks need help. All this discussion is great but what is actually needed is real help, donations etc. been doing this a long time and what we are seeing is absolutely terrible. Just my two cents

[secret_mtn]

Kiley would be among the last politicians to support the taxes and regulations needed to accomplish what he is spouting about. This is opportunist political talk, as is typical of almost all our “representatives”.

[Firecoach]

The fallout from this disaster will primarily be about fire insurance in California. It’s been coming for some time, but this signals the end of homeowners insurance as we have known it. Most of the discussion will focus on risk, because the private insurance companies will no longer accept the risk of insuring homes in California. If you haven’t been cancelled yet, expect to receive your notice shortly. Then the state legislature will take up the cause.

[secret_mtn]

My insurance was cancelled in 2018.