Well said, we as a country are 34 trill in debt, our cov’t is a huge semi effective machine and getting bigger all the time, and some would say so what as long as I get mine, and I get that, I am guilty having those very thoughts, it’s no real big thing if the fed FF’s get a raise, heck it’s just a drop in the bucket…maybe…just maybe…you are all over the map in what it is you are asking for…better this and better that…how bout you all ask for something reasonable like a 25% across the board pay raise that counts towards your retirement. As I have said in the past if you want the time off and pay then go work for another agency…why stay and be miserable, the job alone is often miserable…I worked 38 years for the feds and on more than one occasion I really got my hopes up that real change was possible…Nope Never…California like HI an AK are the real outliers…Things are very expensive, however w/ a few exceptions the rest of the US not so much…so just maybe those geo areas should receive a statewide COLA… Cost Of Living By State Statistics & Trends In 2023 – Forbes Advisor.
As for the other issues…ie…quality of life, better benefits, mental health care, more time at home w/ family…not sure how to address all that, these are real genuine concerns to be sure, some have solutions some just do not because of the nature of work…I often said that it was the best worst job on the planet…money will fix some of it but not all…unfortunately real sacrifices have to be made if you are going to make a career with the feds…sorry if I come of as being insensitive…I really do care and I hope you all get something…nobody deserve everything, and they are never going to do that…not ever…hoping the very best for you all, prepare to be disappointed once again.
One shouldn’t confuse volume of trade, with your cut of trade. Techies came to the Bay Area in waves, to discover that the split they got at home was more competitive than it looked. Electronic Arts, EAPlay, has a trendy Bioware shop in Sacramento midtown. I’ve spoken with devs over coffee, about Canadians disoriented by how finely the slices of pie could be cut. All this volume, and many, many stakeholders.
Region V needs it our way, to be frank. I mean, let’s face it, this is about putting uniforms on the line, not experiments. Payroll. Outfits. I’m just saying, there’s going to be room for outfits, and that these opportunities grow naturally out of federal payrolls that back them up. Institutional competency reduces costs for outfits, and NGOs, cooperators, contractors and the lot. Payroll contributes directly to this due to retention.
The fact remains there are over 7million unfilled jobs in America that are considered BLUE COLLAR. Federal minimum wage is $7.50, California minimum wage is $15.50 and climbing(pegged to COLA & rising every Jan).
The point I’m making is this. How do 49 other states compete with California? This isn’t an argument question, this is a Dollars and Cents questio n. How does this happen? I happen to agree with the R5, AK, Ca, HI COLA idea.
Next question, how do the Feds recruit and retain when quality of life issues outside of $$$ are so much different in R5 than the rest of the nation?
A local highend LG dept only got 15 applications for 6 FF FF/PM jobs. Starting pay at $100k for a 10 day/month schedule.
This shortage of FF/Blue Collar workers is a lot bigger than people realize.
Yep, you nailed it, there is a real shortage of folks willing to do certain jobs to be sure, on the other hand a great many well-paying blue-collar jobs have been outsourced to other countries. Those well-paying jobs that a high school graduate could do and make a decent living.
15 bucks in CA does not go very far, take that same 15 bucks and go south and it’s a bit different…CA has been poorly governed for many decades, that is one of the main reasons I left, I was a GS-9 hoping to knock down a 1000+ hrs of OT just so I could take care of my family, when I left CA, I had the same job here with nearly as many hours and my standard of living improved greatly…it really did…nicer home, taxes, food, gas…everything was and is better. but even here entry level fast food is paying 15$, that is a real slap in the face of an entry level fed FF making less than 15. it needs to be fixed to be sure. Firefighters say they’ll quit if their temporary pay boost isn’t made permanent : NPR
It was a huge mistake to only gives these folks a temporary pay raise, and 20.000 a year was way to much, because if they pass something it’s not going to be 20k a year, not even close…lastly all these projections that a third or more will walk away is utter nonsense, I read one article out of ID, people will have to live out of their cars, sell their homes, doom and gloom…why would you hang your hat on a temp pay raise, I am not going to tell folks how to spend that money, me I put some of that in the bank for a fall back cushion, just some, I would have spent most of it…And if you really want to quit then quit…really just quit…maybe you could do better elsewhere…
This thread would be more beneficial if posts were kept to actual updates and status of the issue and fewer soap boxes.
Austerity breeds disaster. The late 90s saw residential centers, including alma mater Academy Unit closed to reduce the number of positions. Residential Centers are the Corps secret sauce. USFS could use more, I think. Housing costs are notorious nemesis of public budgets. How do you ask a T1 handcrew with one to three seasons to take a pay cut and be tossed into the housing market on CCC graduation? If it was as simple-stupid as a new uniform and moving into the dorms on the other side of the joint compound, like Toro Fire Center, living out of trailers at Greenville or any number of public facilities, but it’s not.
500 or 600(?) graduating T1 crewmates per year, ready for federal jobs, need to pay the rent at that nice Forest Service posting. The equivalent studio and single apt living spaces are there, USFS has lots of land. Regional zoning bodies must surely be prepared to talk about sites, traffic, services, shopping, etc. Maybe, you don’t want to live in a dorm, there’s already spare dorms. USFS should be able to do better than that. I would hope there are some sites that could be stood up with housing amenities nearly equivalent to a studio or single apartment. All over Region V, no?
It’s another engine on the plane.
COLA is just common sense. How difficult could it be to bridge the housing element so glaring in CA with equivalent factors in other Regions, to arrive at a sustainable payroll? Housing allowances and residential centers seem obvious.
Well, here is reason #479 why this problem will only get worse and the exodus and revolving door of Federal FF will get worse and continue.
Here is the actual poison pill. The house majority party has inserted this in all the must pass legislation in committee. The legislation goes to the full house where it won’t pass. What I’m guessing is going to occur is the Senate will send their bills created by their majority party (different than the house majority party) which should include their version of the FF Bill and send it over to the house as a must pass. What the house does with it who know as it seems there is no one in charge over there except the crazies.
Working on getting a Bill Update via Zoom Meeting for everyone from NFFE
Listened to an LPCC area ready resources report this morning. Sounds. Kinda. Light. The Speaker needs to cut bait and finish the task before him before somebody gets killed.
I don’t know what his office is really thinking, but that they can just roll the dice on urban alpha strike teams to always come to the rescue. The legal environment is such, with no small contribution by California’s leisure-class state politicians enjoying a wet year without the 1001 WUI riparian creek and parkway fires that constantly engage and tie up medics and available resources. I don’t really think this is something you bank on.
I mean, I guess when your getting exhortations from delirious sky pilot vacay boaters out on the reservoir so often and so loud that you can’t hear people from the nearby town saying T-shirt sales ain’t insuring their homes, and the USFS garages are full of engines with no one to drive them and transporters with no one to transport, you need to review your priorities and hang up on somebody or surrender the job, right? Hang up on the Sky Pilot and pick up the call from the Ranger, Mr. Speaker. Okay, I’m done. :\
Update About Erroneous Annual Salary Documentation Issued to Employees in Wildland Firefighting Positions
Human Resources Management wanted to provide an update about employees in wildland firefighting positions who received erroneous annual salary documentation, Standard Form 50 (SF-50), just over two weeks ago.
As communicated by Tony Dixon, Deputy Chief for Business Operations in today’s Chief’s Newsletter, Inside the Forest Service, Human Resources Management and the National Finance Center (the agency’s payroll service provider) have worked together to create a solution to issue new SF-50s that display the correct total annual salary amounts. Wildland firefighters will receive an email message when a corrected SF-50 has been uploaded to their electronic Official Personnel Folder (eOPF); some employees may receive their notice as early as next week. The corrected SF-50 will reflect the total annual amount of wildland firefighter supplemental payments, up to a maximum of $20,000. Wildland firefighters who receive supplemental payments equal to 50% of their base pay will not receive a corrected SF-50 because their SF-50 is correct.
Please know that this error was not made deliberately, and it is realized it created confusion for those who received erroneous SF-50s.
Creating corrected SF-50s will take multiple weeks to complete and I appreciate your patience during this time. If anyone has questions about their pay, please call the Human Resources Management Contact Center at 1-877-372-7248, press 2.
For more details on the permanent pay fix for wildland firefighters, please continue to refer to information provided by Deputy Chief Jaelith Hall-Rivera posted in the Chief Newsletter, Inside the Forest Service.
Not sure what this is saying. Is the Forest Service going to continue receiving the payments after Oct 1?
This is saying the amounts shown on the SF50s many of got a few weeks ago was in fact an error and they will be correcting it. who knows if we will keep the retention payments after Oct 1. I received a confirmation letter this week saying the following
“The funding for this supplemental pay expires on September 30, 2026, or until the funds are depleted, whichever comes first. The Forest Service is engaged in working toward a long-term solution.”
so rest easy, they are working on. (said with a heavy dose of sarcasm)
Here’s a update that I’ll provide,
This past week a group of Wildland Firefighters supported by NFFE traveled to DC to lobby to Congress to educate and get this over the finish line.
Accomplished a couple things.
-6 more Cosponsors of the House Bill
-2 more Cosponsors of the Senate Bill
- Spoke with committee leaders (house ag, natural resources, and oversight/workforce) to let them know this is a must pass Bill and it’ll be on their hands when the public finds out homes burned and people die because they gave WLFFs a pay decease.
- Confronted several “problem” reps when they didn’t take our meetings in the hallways of the house office buildings.
- House and Senate leadership know this is a Must Pass issue regardless of Continuing Resolution (CR) or Gov Shutdown.
- The phone calls to members is working because they’re telling us about them. So keep that going!
-We did several press articles while there including the Washington Post and a podcast.
We need to keep the pressure on. Start calling and Writing. Tell them how this is gonna effect you! Especially if you are represented by our more “fiscally conservative” friends.
The Union sent 8 WLFFs to lobby on your behalf. Their travel and a place to stay was provided by Union dues! Its not cheap to travel to DC to advocate. Become a Dues Paying Union Member to support Federal Employees. Please thank these 8 WLFFs went travelled on their own A/L! They could’ve used it on their families.
That’s the latest from DC.
Nice work Hurryup
Firefighter pay escalates tensions between Biden administration and House conservatives
The Forest Service may have slightly more wiggle room to maintain boosted firefighter pay than it’s letting on — but not nearly to the extent House Republicans are claiming.
As Congress approaches a critical Sept. 30 deadline to fund the government, the Forest Service has said nearly 20,000 of thefederal firefighting workforce could see their paychecks cut in half come October if Congress doesn’t extend temporary payincreases. But Republicans on the House Natural Resources Committee are accusing the Forest Service of misleading them on how quickly a fund bumping pay for firefighters will run dry. Aides said that as recently as last week, the agency told them that “there would be no money” and “there was nothing to shuffle around.”
“It’s just kind of a bewildering situation for us,” said one of the staffers, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk candidly about the alleged discrepancy. “Our priority is making sure that wildland firefighters are taken care of and that they’re also getting the best and most accurate information possible.” Lawmakers generally agree that wildland firefighters are underpaid and overworked, with the nation experiencing its most damaging wildfire seasons on record in the past three years. So when Congress passed the 2021 Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, it included $480 million to temporarily boost firefighter pay in fiscal years 2022 and 2023.
According to a recent data table, the Forest Service, which is housed by the Agriculture Department, still had about a quarter of those funds, or $119 million, remaining in its account roughly two weeks ago. That table showed the agency had already spent 75 percent, or $361 million of those mandated funds. The Republican staffer told The Climate 202 that, by their calculations, the Forest Service should have enough money left in its bank to guarantee pay for federal firefighters through May 2024.
But a USDA spokes person, Democrats on the committee and union officials have all said that’s incorrect. “We have been incredibly transparent about the status of funds as we make our case that a permanent pay fix is needed for the federal wildland firefighting workforce, but the misinformation they’re sharing today is disingenuous to those very firefighters,” the USDA spokesperson said, adding that the GOP assertions “are based on a misunderstanding and miscalculation of data.”
The numbers
Here’s the breakdown:
As of Sept. 13, $109 million remained in the Forest Service’s infrastructure law account to fund raises for wildland firefighters. The most recent pay period ended on Sept. 9. It will cost roughly $30 million to cover the costs of raises through the last pay period in this fiscal year. Then, there is another $30 million set aside for cost overruns and corrections, or for things like overtime and hazard
pay. Notably, the agency has also set aside $25 million in compliance with the law from those same funds for mental health services. This money will remain in the account indefinitely until the Forest Service finds a way to use the funds.
So, the total undisclosed funding left over — which those familiar with the internal budget said is likely the number that the House Republicans were looking for — is $24 million. The USDA says this amount can probably cover two additional pay periods of raises, or up until Nov. 5, adding more than a month onto the supposed expiration date.
G. William Hoagland, senior vice president of the Bipartisan Policy Center, said that while he hasn’t reviewed the specific numbers, “if they have unobligated, unspent moneys that they have available, and there’s no restriction on those being carried over, then yes — then the cliff would be softened.”
But Steve Lenkhart, executive director of the National Federation of Federal Employees, said the difference of only about 30 days doesn’t really amount to “funding that was hidden under a bookshelf somewhere,” comparing the time frame to “tomorrow in congressional terms.”
The details
The spat comes as the NFFE, which represents about 100,000 public employees in the federal government,estimates that 30 percent to 50 percent of the federal firefighter workforce could walk off the job in the nextyear if Congress doesn’t quickly approve future funding. Such resignations en masse could have a profound impact on the nation’s ability to tackle fierce blazes at the peak of wildfire season, which is becoming longer and more intense in a warming world, Lenkhart said.
Lawmakers in both chambers have introduced bipartisan bills to at least codify the current pay increase issued by the 2021infrastructure law, which bumped firefighter paychecks to a minimum of $15 per hour and increased pay by $20,000 or 50 percent of base salary, whichever was lower. And the Biden administration has asked Congress to include $60 million for firefighter pay in a supplemental spending package by the end of the month.
Still, the Republican staffer said that the House Natural Resources Committee will likely conduct major oversight of the Forest Service in the coming months in light of the standoff.
A Democratic spokesperson for the committee told The Climate 202 that “despite the majority’s distortion of the facts to claim otherwise, failing to fund the government and the President’s supplemental request will have real, damaging impacts on thelives of the wildland firefighters we depend on to keep us safe.”
That was in the Washington Post