The grassroots wildland firefighters meeting last night was really positive, lots of good work going on.
Everyone that is concerned with our pay and wellbeing should get involved, even if just spreading the word to family and friends.
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I agree, stay plugged in to Grassroots and send their message far and wide.
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Hearing reports that Biden is going to speak again this coming week about Wildland Firefighter.
Nothing confirmed.
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Maybe a plan? Or a Executive Order?
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Moving more jobs to permanent status is good, however you will always need proven temps to hire from.
Union and congress and admin are overthinking this.
$21 an hour entry level pay. Scale up from there.
Wildland Fire series.
Implement portal to portal pay for all emergencies.
With that said, thanks to them all for at least taking about our FF’ers. $15 an hour isn’t going to cut it.
https://federal news network.com/workforce/2021/07/biden-expands-pay-hiring-for-federal-firefighters-but-union-warns-its-not-enough/
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Has anyone not in management sat down and put together a workforce plan and implementation plan to present to USDA and DOI? or are you going to trust them to develop this new series and hope they give you everything they want. I’m speaking from experience working on one FS working group. Unless some representing you and the " new Wildland Fire Fighters is putting a plan together on paper, they are going to run right over you all.
Even if you get a new series with better pay, with PTP, they are going to find a way to screw you all over unless you have a plan in writing that they can look at, as well as a plan A, B, C, D, and E.
The budget of the FS and DOI is going to grow overnight and how are you going to make sure they will continue to fund the new series once this president is replaced with another one?
And what about the federal law enforcement personnel on each forest and DOI that respond to your fires. Are you going to want have their pay bumped up also and five them PTP?
And what about fighting fire inside a structure? I understand you will be a “Wildland Fire Fighter”, but will policy change so you can fight fire inside a dwelling or structure? If so what about beards on duty? The whole BA issue comes back up.
There are so many issues that will come up and need to be addressed. But Alli keep hearing about is a new series, more money starting at $21.00 an hour, and PTP, Who is doing the grunt work, the new program together? Your plan should be in writing before the President presents his other wise you will lose before you even get started. Because he is going to listen to his OPM department only. Because that’s why their there. To execute his wishes. And if he only here’s one side of the story, they will give you table scraps. Up
You need to bring back Cassey Judd or someone on his staff that knows how you all operate and how DC works. Or you be forced to take what is handed out to you and call it a day…
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Beards on duty should be the least of their concerns. You can pass a fit test with a beard. I don’t think crews would be able to abstain from certain activities on their 24 off.
Sure they can. When your pay, benifits including your retirement are at stake if you make career ending mistakes. A single question gets asked ON EVERY 24 off duty. “Is what you want to do worth your career and benifits”?
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Just because you’re paid portal to portal doesn’t mean you’re 24 on 24 off.
I never understood that scheduling anyway, all situational awareness is out the window on every shift.
Still work 16-8 meeting 2 to 1 just compensated for actual hours committed to the incident.
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After working both, I personally like the 24 on 24 off a lot better. It’s not that bad to stay on for 24 and I feel a lot more rested when I come back to work rather than when I worked the 16-8 everyday. I feel like I can get more work done in that 24 hours rather than switching resources. It makes out of county assignments better too
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Understand in the fire service other than Federal LMA the work shift is 24hr a day. While there are different shifts
2 four Kelley 24 on 24 off for 2 then 4 days off
48/96 2 24hr shifts followed by 4 days off
72/96 (CF & Federal DOD schedule)
The expectation is you might have to work 24hr in a 24hr day.
Anybody who works in a BUSY urban environment runs between 10-20 calls per day and the busiest stations run 30+ with 5+ of those being after midnight.
Add to that being a paramedic and having the responsibility for Narcotics. Those that work maintain their SA while doing the job without adverse effects. You just learn how to do it.
There are OSHA rules in place for work/rest & minimum water intake and what has to be available for workers. It’s not like your hiking/moping up/swinging a tool for all 24hr.
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The original thought on the 24 on and off was about being on an assignment and someone wanking about crews screwing things up on their 24 off. (Guess they’re not professionals)
I was just stating I feel it’s better to work everyday while on assignment, I don’t need a 24hr vacation every other day.
24 on 24 off x 14days = 168hrs
16 on 8 off x14days = 224hrs
We should all be compensated for all hours assigned regardless of hours on the line.
24 hour vacation, LOL…I wish. Statements like that really do a disservice to those that fall under that schedule.
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What amazes me every time this comes up is that many of us on the 24 hour cycle are deep in the fight to make their working conditions and pay better….and yet they attack us rather than see us as the true allies that we are.
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This thread is about pay, not shift lengths.
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One hundred percent true, we should all be compensated for hours assigned. Regardless of hours on shift.
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Discussion is better than nothing. Many people, high and low read this thread. I just hope they’re taking notes.
folks who work 24 on and 24 off are paid for the 24 off. Thus the need to be “professional” because they are working, ie being paid
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Respectfully, I think shift length is integral to entry pay discussion. The public hears CF entry level FF’s make 50k+ per year (and thus one of the arguments for FS firefighters to bump up their entry pay). What they’re not told is they work minimum 72 hour/week and their starting salary is still minimum wage. I am all for FS entry level entry wages being what you propose as their duty week (as far as I know) is 40/week. But let’s acknowledge that CF is in the same boat primarily because their duty week obscures the low entry pay.
Btw, I’ve always hated the “24 on/ 24 off” moniker. At the minimum it should be referenced as 36 on/ 12 off (8-10 spent catching up on lack of sleep).
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