Heard Forest Service HR and WO leadership are having a call right now to decide what to do.
I have an idea, Pay em!
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Thanks alot Antoine Dixon, deputy chief of business ops for f.s., for your “clarification” email stating that your raise you thought you were getting, due to an error in pay delivery systems, is in fact, an error. Do not pass go, do not collect 31539.00
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What a complete joke! This close to the pay cliff and having no open line of communication about what’s going to happen come the new FY.
Every one needs to band together and just work our base hours and noting more.
I feel this will make a lot of people on the fence say I’m out.
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That’s probably the most terrible timing for that magnitude of error. Kind of like a punch line to an already bad joke. I’m sure they are shaking their heads right now trying to figure out how that happened.
Regardless, the only control we have now is to fight or leave. Keep writing to your congress people or have fun on other pastures. I’m going to keep fighting.
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The real slap in the face is that the SF-50s came out days ago yet our management couldn’t be bothered on their Labor Day weekend to send out an email explaining the error to all of us essential forestry technicians who don’t get holidays off. Instead they left us in the dark as they always do. Way to help that morale when it was really needed. Can they get any lower?
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Interesting concept.
LA Times would enjoy this story. This needs to get to the press and Jaelith Hall-Rivera needs to testify before Congress, again, about what happened.
Fight
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It’s a bit of a broken record, but it paints a true picture of what’s going on in the current state of affairs for us and what avenues can be taken to mitigate the issue.
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Oops, it’s a re post of an above post. Sorry about that all!
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Aren’t we supposed to put salt in open wounds? Geeez what a mess. Awesome timing. I was really hoping for a big Win. But nope. Just more Salt.
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The writers may be overestimating the buy-in, effect, reach, and sustainability of ‘The Program’.
I should be clear to say I’m not suggesting that these reporters need to be brought over to another point of view, but that there is little evidence that the ‘hardliners’, as it were, are gaining in any appreciable ways since the mid-terms. They might represent 1/5, 1/4, or 1/3 of the Congress, depending on who you ask. Insufficient to tank a bill the majority wants to pass.
Even the simplest majority of 1 vote is enough, because the odds are slim and none of a White House veto.
To put it mildly, this Congress is having a hard time getting anything of substance done at all, because the members are mired in health and legal struggles of their own and are beset with indecisive economic advisors and anxious lobbyists.
It’s good to keep your eyes on it, though, even if there isn’t much to say beyond taking care to be skeptical of data and game theorists for the same reason you would if you were talking about desertification. In the abstract, it’s all too easy for the theory to arrive at the ‘zero work required’ answer because the chosen plot points ignore anything that isn’t in the arbitrary set of factors introduced. The model feels right because you arrive at something like sum: zero, and/or ‘status quo’, which may imply balance and thus consensus. But the reality is nothing like that. The United States, in this regard, is more like a quilt than a pool.
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Good points ghost. At the suggestion of likely the agencies, the pay rates have already been watered down and come in below the BIL bonus level for some grade levels. The change from true portal to portal, to 1/4 time, to now a daily payment of up to $170 is another watering down of what’s actually needed. If this continues who knows what comes out of this. Although I have always appreciated Joe Neguse’s leadership on this topic for many years, I am disappointed where we find ourselves today, however positive we will see something.
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Why this is not in the “news” with the ongoing UAW, WGA issues is beyond comprehensible to me. Also, has there been any comments or actions from the Chief(s) or AG-Sec / Interior Secretary to address the Legislation? Have any of them shown support or has it been crickets? #OutsideLookingIn.
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Well said, we as a country are 34 trill in debt, our cov’t is a huge semi effective machine and getting bigger all the time, and some would say so what as long as I get mine, and I get that, I am guilty having those very thoughts, it’s no real big thing if the fed FF’s get a raise, heck it’s just a drop in the bucket…maybe…just maybe…you are all over the map in what it is you are asking for…better this and better that…how bout you all ask for something reasonable like a 25% across the board pay raise that counts towards your retirement. As I have said in the past if you want the time off and pay then go work for another agency…why stay and be miserable, the job alone is often miserable…I worked 38 years for the feds and on more than one occasion I really got my hopes up that real change was possible…Nope Never…California like HI an AK are the real outliers…Things are very expensive, however w/ a few exceptions the rest of the US not so much…so just maybe those geo areas should receive a statewide COLA… Cost Of Living By State Statistics & Trends In 2023 – Forbes Advisor.
As for the other issues…ie…quality of life, better benefits, mental health care, more time at home w/ family…not sure how to address all that, these are real genuine concerns to be sure, some have solutions some just do not because of the nature of work…I often said that it was the best worst job on the planet…money will fix some of it but not all…unfortunately real sacrifices have to be made if you are going to make a career with the feds…sorry if I come of as being insensitive…I really do care and I hope you all get something…nobody deserve everything, and they are never going to do that…not ever…hoping the very best for you all, prepare to be disappointed once again.
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One shouldn’t confuse volume of trade, with your cut of trade. Techies came to the Bay Area in waves, to discover that the split they got at home was more competitive than it looked. Electronic Arts, EAPlay, has a trendy Bioware shop in Sacramento midtown. I’ve spoken with devs over coffee, about Canadians disoriented by how finely the slices of pie could be cut. All this volume, and many, many stakeholders.
Region V needs it our way, to be frank. I mean, let’s face it, this is about putting uniforms on the line, not experiments. Payroll. Outfits. I’m just saying, there’s going to be room for outfits, and that these opportunities grow naturally out of federal payrolls that back them up. Institutional competency reduces costs for outfits, and NGOs, cooperators, contractors and the lot. Payroll contributes directly to this due to retention.
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The fact remains there are over 7million unfilled jobs in America that are considered BLUE COLLAR. Federal minimum wage is $7.50, California minimum wage is $15.50 and climbing(pegged to COLA & rising every Jan).
The point I’m making is this. How do 49 other states compete with California? This isn’t an argument question, this is a Dollars and Cents questio n. How does this happen? I happen to agree with the R5, AK, Ca, HI COLA idea.
Next question, how do the Feds recruit and retain when quality of life issues outside of $$$ are so much different in R5 than the rest of the nation?
A local highend LG dept only got 15 applications for 6 FF FF/PM jobs. Starting pay at $100k for a 10 day/month schedule.
This shortage of FF/Blue Collar workers is a lot bigger than people realize.
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Yep, you nailed it, there is a real shortage of folks willing to do certain jobs to be sure, on the other hand a great many well-paying blue-collar jobs have been outsourced to other countries. Those well-paying jobs that a high school graduate could do and make a decent living.
15 bucks in CA does not go very far, take that same 15 bucks and go south and it’s a bit different…CA has been poorly governed for many decades, that is one of the main reasons I left, I was a GS-9 hoping to knock down a 1000+ hrs of OT just so I could take care of my family, when I left CA, I had the same job here with nearly as many hours and my standard of living improved greatly…it really did…nicer home, taxes, food, gas…everything was and is better. but even here entry level fast food is paying 15$, that is a real slap in the face of an entry level fed FF making less than 15. it needs to be fixed to be sure. Firefighters say they’ll quit if their temporary pay boost isn’t made permanent : NPR
It was a huge mistake to only gives these folks a temporary pay raise, and 20.000 a year was way to much, because if they pass something it’s not going to be 20k a year, not even close…lastly all these projections that a third or more will walk away is utter nonsense, I read one article out of ID, people will have to live out of their cars, sell their homes, doom and gloom…why would you hang your hat on a temp pay raise, I am not going to tell folks how to spend that money, me I put some of that in the bank for a fall back cushion, just some, I would have spent most of it…And if you really want to quit then quit…really just quit…maybe you could do better elsewhere…
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This thread would be more beneficial if posts were kept to actual updates and status of the issue and fewer soap boxes.
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Austerity breeds disaster. The late 90s saw residential centers, including alma mater Academy Unit closed to reduce the number of positions. Residential Centers are the Corps secret sauce. USFS could use more, I think. Housing costs are notorious nemesis of public budgets. How do you ask a T1 handcrew with one to three seasons to take a pay cut and be tossed into the housing market on CCC graduation? If it was as simple-stupid as a new uniform and moving into the dorms on the other side of the joint compound, like Toro Fire Center, living out of trailers at Greenville or any number of public facilities, but it’s not.
500 or 600(?) graduating T1 crewmates per year, ready for federal jobs, need to pay the rent at that nice Forest Service posting. The equivalent studio and single apt living spaces are there, USFS has lots of land. Regional zoning bodies must surely be prepared to talk about sites, traffic, services, shopping, etc. Maybe, you don’t want to live in a dorm, there’s already spare dorms. USFS should be able to do better than that. I would hope there are some sites that could be stood up with housing amenities nearly equivalent to a studio or single apartment. All over Region V, no?
It’s another engine on the plane.
COLA is just common sense. How difficult could it be to bridge the housing element so glaring in CA with equivalent factors in other Regions, to arrive at a sustainable payroll? Housing allowances and residential centers seem obvious.
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Well, here is reason #479 why this problem will only get worse and the exodus and revolving door of Federal FF will get worse and continue.
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