Wildland Firefighter Entry Level Pay

General Discussion
#123

So I have been a temp for 12 years and there have been changes, we do get health and rehire rights and better chances at getting a permanent position. but our pay is already low for what we do and then you add health insurance. that said I love my job and am Happy to be here in part but also upset that the federal land management agencies abuse the temp workforce. we genuinely are second class citizens. these positions need to be converted to permanent (seasonal is fine).

so there is Health insurance for temps, it costs a bit too much for a temp but it’s there.

then there is this, it allows temps to be considered for permanent positions based on internal merit.

and last, this allows long-term temps to be rehired without having to compete for there job. basically rehire rights
6130_ID_for_Rehire_of_Long-Term_Temp_Seasonal_Emps.pdf (71.0 KB)

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#124

So whats up with the article on saying no health benefits? IMHO for that work it should be completely paid for and no burden for the employee. Its not combat but the civil servant equivalent. Your basic needs should be met like they do in the military.

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#125

ignorance?? or they are trying to make a point that it costs too much? no idea why they left it out.

#126

Time to get some traction. Wake up Vallejo.

Thank you to Vice President nominee Harris for your work on this issue.

8 Likes
#127

union density, at least in R5, is extremely low. I don’t think it is my place to say what it is, but it is very very low. I agree that union power would be hugely helpful. The barriers to union power in the Forest Service are… numerous.

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#128

I missed the connection with union membership?

#129

But what us forest service forestry tech is stantioned in the sf bay area?!?

#130

NPS and BLM have or had firefighters station in Marin county, with is the North Bay.

#131

Rabbit holes are probably not where we want to go with this nugget.

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#132

Yeah, they are missing the point. This a huge deal getting the two Senators from CA to send this letter to the Dept Heads. Unions in Federal Service are not here to drop the hammer for wages and benefits, there mainly involved in making sure everyone stays in their lanes with an occasional lobby for benefit. And San Francisco is just used as location example, don’t get caught up in it.

This is a big deal. The only way things change around here is with Congressional push and line officers really caring, understanding and following through on supporting an injured fire program.

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#133

Progress we’ve seen made in the past seemed to be in alignment early on with the 2000 and 2008 election cycles. A little late for this cycle, however that doesn’t mean we can’t make progress in 2021. We all know the attrition and pay environment is worse off now than previous years. Someone once said get busy living or get busy dying.

We still have a FY2021 budget that needs to developed and signed. Do what you can to be heard moving forward over the weeks-months ahead.

More on pay and quality of life here:

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#134

So glad I listened to training chief who told me and a few hundred other apprentices at R5 NEO, “WE’RE NOT THE FIRE DEPT. IF YOU WANT THEM, GO THERE.”

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#135

What ever happened to Casey and his attempt to lobby Congress for a new series for wildland fire fighting?

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#136

This will go nowhere for the federal employees, unless LG departments help put pressure on the issue. But why would they do that, they can get a highly trained qualified employee from the feds. So the fed guys are on their own and nothing will ever change. I tell everyone I know, go get a few years experience with the feds, then you will look that much better for a LG department. Plus you’ll make a lot more and work half the hours.

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#137

As a Delegate to The IAFF confab in Chicago in 2000 I saw lots of DOD and DOJ union brothers and sisters. One thing which might help is drop the mentality I have seen on Social media platforms. When we show up at the BIG One or a small one, whether we arrive by red engine or green crew buggy we are all FIREFIGHTERS. The tribalism must stop and we all sing Kumbaya.
Carry on

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#138

Well, lets bring up the facts from that conference and how you abandoned all the federal employees, except for DOD. In the last minutes, once they could not use any federal union dues for political contributions, you stopped supporting the federal employees reclassification and all we where crossed out of the omnibus bill. Also Casey Judd was using part of all his membership dues to support you too and you just did nothing for us because of stipulations of how you can spend our money. Also you say we are all as one. This year again on every fire I watch the LG guys make between 25000-50000 per assignment and say “we support you on getting better pay” but it is all say and no show. So step up to the plate and really support your federal partners and push for change.

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#139

As I said we must stop the tribalism If you like to give me a call I will gladly discuss this with you

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#140

Thanks for getting out the vote.

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#141

This didn’t turn out well…

Date: April 1, 2011

Subject: Fire and Aviation Management Key Long Term Objectives|

To: Regional Foresters, Station Directors, Area Director, IITF Director, Deputy Chiefs and WO Directors

Consistent with the intent to have the Fire and Aviation Management (FAM) vision aligned and supportive of our Agency mission, and consistent with my desire to improve, I am enhancing the FAM mission statement I set forth in the 5100 Fire and Aviation Management, New Director Mission Statement memo dated April 11, 2005. That memo focused on fundamental behavioral principles of Innovation, Discipline, and Execution. As we implement these behavioral principles, I believe we should apply those behavior principles to six key elements vital to our continuous improvement in FAM:

A National Cohesive Wildland Fire Management Strategy that supports the Chief’s 1020 Taking Stock and Looking to the Future dated December 21, 2010, and the Release of the Forest Service Action Plan dated January 3, 2011, memos.

Aligning fire dynamics with land management objectives that support healthy landscapes and the implementation of the new Planning Rule.

Applying doctrine and risk management in every decision and action we take to support the Chiefs focus on safety.

Enhancing the professionalism of the FAM workforce so we are an extraordinary vibrant workforce for the future.

Continue our Quadrennial Fire Review – our continual eye on the future so we can best position ourselves for our “all lands” perspective.

Being world leaders in fire and aviation management.

The Chief recently expressed his strategic intent for the direction of the Agency in both his

December 21, 2010, memo as well as the recent Action Plan for the Nation’s Forests and Grasslands. This expression of intent for our FAM program is to clearly communicate our alignment with that strategic direction. These objectives are also aligned with key principles communicated to me by the Deputy Chief, State and Private Forestry. Our work on these six key elements is tied to the specifics noted in the Action Plan. Additionally, all of the elements conform to the Chiefs five focus points for the future.

I am proud of our progress over the years and optimistic for the future of FAM as we engage with our colleagues and partners in the next large, powerful, progressive steps to improve.
/s/ T.C. Harbour
TOM HARBOUR
Director, Fire and Aviation Management

cc: Patricia Hirami, Richard Kvale, Victoria C Christiansen

#142

JC, what a bunch of gobbledygook. I’m guessing the app back then for pulling out a bunch of words from a thesaurus wasn’t so well refined.

Tell me all but 12 people who got this claptrap of words didn’t hit the delete button 7 seconds after seeing it.

Probably took 4 days, numerous rewrites and handful of collaborative consultations before it was sent out.

Sheesh… :man_facepalming:

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