The reality is, no one would be forced to work more than they already worked previously… (their 12th day) fortunately with the OT rate bump, I know lots of hungry motivated people that actually want that OT. They can have it!
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I think the point is that if we are forced to work the 12th day then our schedule didn’t change.
Granted it’s at a higher rate, but it’s still 12 days.
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Yeah well it’s not exactly realistic to hire 3000 people overnight. Baby steps. It’s a move in the right direction. No one should have expected the staffing to come immediately. We can only hire so quickly. In fact, some units did start hiring preemptively and will be able to minimize the OT.
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I agree. I just prefer that be the line as opposed to, hey it’s only the same schedule.
Again, both labor and management have this thing where we are treated like kids. That’s what makes us mad. Just say, “hey guys it’s gonna take a minute to hire all these people. Stay the course with us, we are headed the right direction.” We don’t always need to be “sold” the product.
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AB1254 was placed in the inactive file on 8/26/2024. AB2438 was read a third time in the senate, passed and was sent back to the assembly, who did not take up voting on AB2438. Once the 2023-2024 legislative session ended on Saturday 8/31/2024 both bills are dead. For future consideration the bills would needs to be reintroduced in the next session and start the approval process all over again.
I’m not sure why people put so much hope into either bill, we have tried to legislate change before and it has never worked. The bills that L2881 has gotten approved in the past have been vetoed by the governor, who simply states “The State does not bargain wages or working conditions outside of collective bargaining”.
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??? AB2438 has to deal with property crime.
AB 2538 (eliminations of 9 months maximum for FFs) was passed by both houses and will be sent to the governor for signing or veto.
Now back to the topic of the 66 hour work week, discussion on bills can be found at
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Well what schedules are units going to?
Rotating Backward 2WP
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I’m lost on this anymore, does that mean all units?
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No, each unit (Chief) will decide.
I’m curious if anyone chooses the modified
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IMO, in order to be a good leader in the fire service, you first need to be an excellent firefighter and engineer/driver. Second, your personal agenda should take a backseat to your leadership responsibilities. Most of us know the one or two reasons many people work to promote in the fire service: more money and/or ego. Ego can be subdivided into power trip (“boss”) and self-worth/self-importance. These days, it seems like there are many more bosses than leaders in the fire service.
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So just me asking?? If the 72 hr shift is so unhealthy and we need to get to a 66 hr work week… then why are all the options have a 72 hrs on them?? Why not just stand our ground and say… 48/96 and the chips fall where they fall!!
To reduce the workweek in small chunks is a more likely ask. The funding to hire the staffing to support a third platoon was the real win.
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Well the funding was approved… for a 3rd platoon at the state level… it’s because the contract county’s and city’s don’t want to take the financial impact… those that can… will … those that can’t… will pay OT behind the staffing because that’s our new standard… we can still work the 72… but get the OT … just asking ??
Let me pose a few questions
How to you hire and train 4,000 new permanent employees?
The 66hr clearly states 2,400 new employees (02350 & 03050)
The other 1600(estimated) come from cooperative fire protection agreements.
How do you require Cooperative fire protection agreements to increase their staffing, when the 02350 & 03050 side don’t increase theirs?
How to you train all these new apprentices that will be hired? Keep in min SUB-JAC is union(CPF) run program.
Finally, how do you eat an elephant? Answer, 1 bite at a time. The 66hr work week is the 1st bite of many bites to come.
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You do what the departments been doing for the last couple years. Hire everyone and pass them through the FFA and COA. The quality of the new engineers these days are scary. They are just as lost as a first seasonal out of county because they never been on a campaign fire let alone sprayed water on a real fire.
I pray they get a ton of experience the next few years and no one else gets hurt this year.
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You are correct, you hire and push though FFA & COA.
But you completely missed my point.
Who does the training? Who steps up into a leadership position? Who joins a Cadre at CNR, CSR, Unit level to train these new apprentices? Who ACTUALLY does what it takes to become a SFT Instructor?
For years now, people have been on the mental health, quality time with family, we need a raise bandwagon. But when the rubber meets the road Who STEPS UP?
EVERY FAE APPRENTICE since 1/1/2017 has been required to take SFT INST 1. Yet, even our training centers struggle to get qualified FC’s to teach. That’s over 2,000 new FAE’s in 7yr and counting. Yet, we still have employees on year 4-6 of JAC because they can’t get into classes,.because their aren’t enough SFT qualified Instructors to teach even the basics (ICS 300, 400.
It’s easier to be on a forum like this and complain, the think about a legitimate solution. Then actually take action to put that solution to work.
I’ve drawn more than my fair share of paper on these new FAE’s. I agree, a growing percentage of them are NOT QUALIFIED to drive BIG RED, let alone IC a 2 Car TC with 1 patient. But who is stepping up to train them? Who is joining equipment committees, PPE Working Groups, who is stepping up to train themselves for the next step while taking someone under their wing and mentioning them?
Be the change is step 2, being patient is step 3, but leaving it better than we found it should be step 1 in my opinion. Simple things like not treating our FF they way we were treated. Understanding times have changed. The blue collar work force in America is smaller than it was when we started. Adapting to the realization that not as many people want this as a career as when we started. Yet the job still has to done. More promises (free medical care, longer fire season’s, year round staffing) At the end of the day, NONE OF US were forced to take this trade as a career. We all had the FREEDOM OF CHOICE to make this agency are career. Let’s all do our best to leave it better than we found it.
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This is part of the reason I was against the 66 or 56 at this time. The rapid expansion of the dept in the last fews years created massive voids. Voids that were filled by lowering standards. When I started the voids were smaller but even the first 4-0 hiring saw more qualified seasonals coming in then we are seeing now. First, California killed the PCF/Volunteer train. The insurance and training requirements destroyed what was used as a minor league team for career departments. Before I was hired with CDF, I had 5 seasons with the feds, 4 full years as a volunteer in my VFD, where I was driving apparatus already and was a reserve for the county riding backwards several shifts a month in South Fresno. I had dozens of working structure fires and vehicle accidents, I had wildland engine time, hotshot time, I had hundreds of calls under my belt. This is what it took to get on. Now, we hire you and put you through 4 week long classes, then you get a 9 month season, go to 2 watered down academies and become an engineer. Last year got an engineer with 2 seasons, never been in a structure or on an MVA. This year got a guy with 9 months seasonal time.
I know Im preaching to the choir as we all know the horror stories. The problem for me is the dept. Is already at a hiring deficit and we all see the lowered standards. So now to fill the mass of captains that will be needed to get to traditional staffing and fill a third platoon what is the department going to do? History shows a lowering of standards to fill voids. Meat in the seat. But when meat in the seat wears a red hat we cross a line. Working less days per month to be on par with “smaller” comparable departments is great but with a ship this big it has to be very small chunks. This is my opinion but the way this is going is all wrong, this will greatly impact service to the public greatly, will impact safety of personnel and that is unacceptable. I think this should be rotated in like the old nickel firefighters, where FC and FAEs worked a different shift than the FFs. Bring on a platoon of seasonals to the 66, then FF2, then FAE then FC and finally everyone else. This will allow for tweaking, experience gaining and slowly filling openings with more qualified personnel. The training doesnt need to be an insurmountable task but a more manageable heavy lift. You have more qualified folks to promote and keep standards status quo. To suddenly push unqualified personnel upward and backfill with “bodies” is dangerous, decreases the product put out by the department and forever lowers standards. Maybe Im way off base here and thats what is going to happen but from the discussions I have heard it is not. The 66 is here, but how it is implemented over time needs careful consideration and the product put out by the dept should be the ultimate goal in mind, no to little loss of service should be paramount no matter how long it takes to implement.
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So stifle progress of our department and ultimately our employees well being due to (industry specific, not department specific) lack of hiring pool?
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These are all growing pains. Nothing new. Every time we make a change I hear a lot of chicken littles pop out. “The sky is falling”. This transition is not going to look pretty, if you thought it would, you weren’t paying attention to any change in CAL FIRE over the past 30 years. We will get through this. Training, is an aspect our “leaders” did not plan well. But then again, they’ve also never had to expand a department in this way before either. Plan for mistakes and corrections to happen. That way those impacts are lessened through contingencies and we are better for it.
Have a good day and carry on.
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