Why does SP 4 exist. No side note on reason, or purpose similar to the training schedules.
Is this the department wanting this vs the union not? Lemme guess Captain Bs, HFEOs and LE?
Still gotta hold onto that 4 day work week but tell us we’re firefighters.
The amount of personnel (being) hired should augment any need for coverage ever again for a 4 day WW.
Thoughts
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That modified forward seems like the way to go. I get that if you’re commuting far it’s not great. But you also should be able to trade pool and make it work out great. We have some long commuters and we all know(even them) their going home at some point.
If you’re out of state that’s different, but at the same time come on …… just like our shit pay we all chose our life style
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Either of the Modified schedules work either forward or backwards they see the same. Either Every PP or Every OTHER PP your schedule adjusts forward or backwards 2 days.
Personally, Every other PP seems to work the best.
Reach out and talk to people in BDU & SDU they do the bump back w days every other PP. RRU does it every PP. What I’ve been told is there is a HIGHER PERCENTAGEA “sick leave” in RRU on the 1 days compared to BDU or SDU. Haven’t seen the numbers, just what I’ve been told.
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I was ok with everything in the TA until I saw the rotating schedules. Can someone from the union please explain why there isn’t a non-rotating schedule as an option? As far as I can see it would work just fine with way less confusion on schedules. When this 66hr schedule was sold to us, the only schedule that was shown did not rotate.
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I believe the goal was to get the staffing to eventually support the 56/hr work week. This is accomplished by going to a 3 platoon model. There has to be rotation to adequately space the 3 shifts with minimal overlap. That’s why the modified has at the least amount of overlap, as it’s the closest to the eventual 48/96 schedule we are aiming for.
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Basically if you liked your old set schedule, that is going away. No-more will the new guy get weekends for 2 years. Basically take a look at any schedule LG are working and that’s what CF is going to. That was always the intent as I understood it. . The schedules I saw drawn up were never sanctioned or approved drafts. They were simply someone getting crafty with an excel doc.
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It’s okay, 2881 will be printing out some red, blue and green color coded calendars that shows you’re A,B, or C shift. Maybe even desk and Smokey sized booklets. They’re very FF proof
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Only 2 years weekend would have been great!
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In our unit we rotate forward 1 day every PP and that means some months at the end of the PP we work 4 days straight time in a row and other months we get 5 days off. It takes getting used to but it alleviates any chance for a single day off or a single day on. Not sure why this can’t happen with the 66hr with the change of just 1 shift of a 2-day. I’m sure it was considered, but I just don’t see why it can’t still work.
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Even with the rotation you still have 5 days of overlap each pay period no matter what rotating schedule you go with. Rotating does not change that. It just changes the day of the week that the double up lands on and rotates the double up each pay period. The entire unit will also be doubled up on those same days because everyone will be on the same rotating schedule. Theoretically If you had 15 engines in your unit, you will have 15 extra operators on those 5 days but no extra operators on the other 23 days of the pay period. The more I look at this the more it doesn’t make sense. My vote will be a hard no.
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5 days a pay period with extra operators is the deal breaker for you?
Having trouble understanding how that’s a bad thing 🤷
I was just responding to your statement and pointing out how you still end up with the same amount of double ups no matter how you shake it with any of these schedules. Even with the modified schedule. The deal breaker is the rotating schedules that have you come in for one day. I worked a lot of years on weekends only to finally get seniority and have my nice weekday shift. I’m not willing to give that up. So yes that is a deal breaker for me.
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Just pointing out a simple fact.
The dept is 50.3% Millennials and growing.
I get that you worked a majority of your career to get where you are at. But you also worked 12 days in 28 day PP in your 20’s and now that your in your late 40’s or early 50’s you are a FCB working 16 in 28, but are willing to pass up working 2 less day a PP, a $7-8/hr OT raise, or the opportunity to shift trade 2 days to get 9-11 days off because you won’t get to keep your weekends off?
Do you still have a B&W TV? Rotary Telephone? Blackberry cell phone?
I ask those questions, because we’re the same generation and the opportunity to work with my partners to shift trade 2 day and take an 11 day Vacation every PP without burning a single day of AAV or Holiday seems like a way better deal to me.
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There’s a schedule option with ONE single day shift. Also, the overlap is inevitable like you pointed out and this is done intentionally to accommodate a third platoon so we can eventually go to a 56hr workweek without needing additional personnel.
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I’m willing to accept the new schedule if someone can tell me the reason for rotating that makes sense but so far all I’ve heard are reasons that don’t make sense. I’m sure there are a lot of old farts that feel the same way I do and if the TA needs to get kicked back to get what I want so be it. Maybe even some young ones feel the same way too. I never asked for a 66 hour work week but I was told that I wanted it and how great it would be. Now that I am seeing the reality of it I don’t want any part of it. You don’t need to agree with me but my weekends with my family are more important than making a little more money. Last I checked baseball and soccer games aren’t played during the week.
And yes I have all of those great pieces of technology and they still work great!
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But you don’t need to rotate to accomplish this. It doesn’t make sense.
I think one thing it does is help retention. Look at how many people have left the department for money and a more flexible schedule. Like you said about ball games, how do others get to watch their kids if they work FSS? The reality is if we want to retain people and keep them from walking over to other agencies we have to look at our processes and sometimes adapt to the change. We either adapt or die. We were all once in a position where we were the new guy and just hoped for a holiday off with the family. Just because it’s the way it’s always been doesn’t mean it’s right.
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This is more fair for every one and gets us used to the rotation which is what we will eventually move to on a 48/96. As a senior guy, you may lose your benefit of keeping your static weekday shift, but what you retain is your vacation bidding seniority and the ability to use leave for weeks in which your shifts land on weekends.
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I keep hearing the 48/96 thrown around but the union has never stated they are working towards a 48/96, they’ve only stated they are working towards a 56 hour work week.
The rotational schedule eliminates folks from getting banished to weekends for eternities. Some units force the employee to a two year commitment to their shift days, which isn’t in policy and easily grievable, but some managers tell the employee they aren’t moving that employee to the vacancy at the same station with better days and to grieve the situation if they want to be moved. I only know because I had to live through that situation where a 12 month employee with the agency was going to get a weekday shift pattern vs me with 8 years already completed in the agency. The rotational schedule eliminates these scenarios. Also, folks can now try to transfer to stations they want to work at and onto shifts with people they want to work with because everybody rotates through all the days. No longer do you have to choose the days at a busy station to get weekends off or the days of the week with the salty senior engineer that you can’t stand to be around but you get to go to your kids games on the weekends. It’s great that some people get to go to games, but last I checked my kids aren’t any more special than your kids to you, so it’s nice to get the same opportunities. It’s not about being fair, I hate that analogy because life is never fair, but it is about giving employees equal opportunities. No different than allowing employees to compete for the same promotions when some are more qualified than others.
I’ve also marched it out and seniority does still buy you something. During certain schedule rotations if you burn the 24 on, and the following 48 off, you can secure a total of 16 days off by only burning 3 days of leave credits. So if you are at the bottom the seniority list hold onto your pants, because you’re going to be the only available employee to work until you move up that seniority chain for AAV picks.
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Another person that no longer has a dog in the fight but anyone thinking that if their raise does not meet COLA then it’s not a raise is in for a rude awakening. There are very few LG dept’s in this state that get raises that are commensurate to COLA. The COLA keeps going up and contracts, virtually all, do not fall in line with those. The grass is not necessarily greener in the LG in this regard.
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