I remember as a seasonal with 8 seasons under my belt I had more time then my engineer and he kept deferring to me on stuff and that was scary for those staffing patterns. I started when seasonal’s worked 96, only being paid for 19. The department has and will continue to change but the end product needs to be carefully crafted instead of rushing to fill voids, I’m on the other side of the departments fence watching change and hoping for the best for those on the suppression side.
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This reminds me when the helicopters kept getting larger and larger from the Bell to the Huey now the Blackhawk, folks saying the ships are to big. Well, we found out how to adept and make things work.
Not that you guys and gals aren’t bring up some very good points. The Dept(you Folks) will adapt and make this work.
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If a certain presidential candidate wins the election and approves a no tax on OT, we might have a pool of people willing to work all of this Forcey Bear OT.
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Or a president willing to cut federal funding to firefighters during fire season, aimed at California. But that doesn’t matter much, FMAG anyone?
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Do your research and see what he actually stated! If you follow what the media is telling you then you’re getting the wrong impression of what he actually meant! It’s more about political posturing with Newsom and the state of California to get their act together. You may see it differently but after reviewing it I feel way different
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Let’s please keep politics out of this thread. IRS gone far enough off the rails time and time again, that we don’t need to stray more from the topic at hand.
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Ha. Depends on where you get your research.
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Is anyone doing the modified Kelly?
I heard Riverside is pushing hard for the Kelly
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Awesome I hope they get it
Yup,
West half of the unit is all in, east half is about 50/50.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
TUU has already chosen the Bump back 2 work period schedule.
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On what schedule?
The Modified Kelly.
Those voting for Kelley are overwhelmingly in favor of Kelly bump back and evenly split between 1WP and 2WP.
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How many people voted ?
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How would careful implementation stifle the dept? What is the dept mission, work less days and get paid more? All Im saying is standards cannot lower to fill openings. To fill FC and FAE positions with under qualified people stifles progress. I dont measure progress by the amount of days worked or the thickness of my wallet. Do I agree with pay raises? Yes. Implementing a better system so folks get home more? Yes. But to fill voids with folks we wouldnt have before creates undue stress on their supervisor, their co-workers and shorts their subordinates and stifles the progress of their careers hueting the dept down the road. Facility management goes down the drain, training is unplanned and clunky at best. Crew cohesion disappears. BCs spend all their time dealing with personnel matters and never get a chance to deal with development of folks in their battalions. Lack of report writing skills and understanding of fire investigation in our IA ICs goes down creating undue workload for Prevention. So on and so forth. This can create animosity amongst actual good operators, especially when left unchecked. You get tired of picking up the slack on incidents, training other stations people constantly when they come through your station, walking a FC through basic management skills over the phone takes me away from developing my folks more. All Im saying is implementation needs to be done with all this in mind or you trade one problem for another. Burnout comes in all forms not just working 13 days more per year. Can this be good, yes. But do not drive out knowledgeable good employees to fill openings, and yes I speak from experience. I am sending this from another state, working for another dept now. The juice was no longer worth the squeeze and I havent been gone long but have received more than one phone call from great, very qualified Cal Fire employees asking me how I walked. My interest in this is that for my friends still in the department and the vast majority of my family that live in Cal Fire response areas. It is important and should be voiced.
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Very well stated. 2yr Years ago when this was 1st discussed and explained by Sacramento E staff. It was thought that Sch A contracts would be lost, but nobody would lose their job, just change work locations or PCA"s. While a few small contracts have left, no big (BTU, FKU, RRU) type have been lost.
Now trying to fix the 2 FAE for every 3 FC jobs unbalance is being filled by 3rd year JAC FAE’s that are promoting or Open List FC from other depts. I have personally witnessed highly experienced Federal FC’s, FAE’s and several IHC Supts come over as Open List FC’s. Their wildland skills are unquestionable. But they don’t know our culture, they don’t know our policy, they struggle to adjust to leading CDCR Crews and even FF1 crews. They seem to excel at leading CCC crews. I believe they excel there because of the motivation of Corp members compared to CDCR or FF1. While they understand how a fire station functions, they are completely lost due to a lack experience in the CALFIRE management. Now we have open list FC’s being placed into municipal Sch A stations that run double digit calls everyday. I personally know dozens of FF2 that have more.dept experience than the FC they work for. The results are mixed at best based on the personality of the FC.
I will say this again, there are only 2 solutions.
- The Dept gets smaller (Sch A contracts) and those affected employees get moved to other PCA’s
- Employees step up and get involved in training and mentoring of these new employees.
The politics of Sacramento (Governor) has changed so drastically, so fast, that 8 CDCR Camps were closed 4yr ago and more full sized prisons have been closed and scheduled to be closed than any other time in my life…
THE WORK STILL HAS TO BE DONE!!!
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This would be a perfect opportunity to dump many Schedule A contracts and move people into the newly created positions. Most of the A contracts were based on one thing only- it was the cheapest way for local governments to get paid firefighters. That is no longer the case, and we should be assisting these LG agencies in finding new providers instead of continuing to carry them on our backs. Some A contracts clearly benefit the department and we should keep those if we can. But most don’t, and the department should look at this as an opportunity rather than a threat.
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When was the standard lowered? Can you tell me when report writing was hit on in COA? Also, there is a full investigation class being taught in COA now. I don’t think the standard was ever lowered as people say, (it’s actually gone up) but I do think the experience level has gone down due to the mass hiring. The mass hiring just made it more obvious how important that experience level is.
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The standard absolutely has gone down.
It use to be 80% cumulative to pass
Cat 1 tests were pass 1st time or pass 2nd time and all you got was an 80%
Cat 2 tests were you got what you got percentage wise.
More than a few people would fail drafting getting 30 points or less and not not have 80% cumulative at the end.
Today, they get 3 square tries. Not to mention OSFM adopting the IFSAC Pro Board requirements which are in fact lower standards than what was in place prior.
Finally, SFT 2A, 2D, 2E is now taught as part of COA. On the outside, those classes are each 40hr classes. Driver Operator 1A & 1B are also part of COA and each 40hr. So 5 weeks of classes that can be taken on the outside are part of the 7 weeks of COA.
Oh yeah
You don’t need a Commercial Class B with Tank endorsement anymore either…
The standards have been lowered and those of us in the field that went through 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, BEFO, or 6 week COA know it!
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Come on Hoss, it will always be easier for those who come after us. We all know they are cramming way more shit into the COA and FFA than ever before, the addition of the IFSAC requirement adds an additional 6 weeks for some and those are statewide (all department) standards. I know the times have changed, but if you expect a state department to raise it’s standards above what local gov academies are teaching, then it’s just not realistic.
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