It wasn’t realistic to go to a 66 either, but it happened!
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Never had to cram an additional 6 weeks into the academy before. Why are they doing that? Because we didnt hire or promote those guys before. If everyone thinks 6 weeks at an academy setting is going to magically make well versed employees then there is a real problem. Playing catch up is already happening, now drop 1000 more guys that need to play catch up in short order? Maybe over ststement, say 500? Good luck guys. Im pulling for you all from afar, I just think there needs to be a real strategy and not just throw it against the wall and see what sticks. My family’s lives and homes depend upon it.
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It is as realistic as the budget and 5 year implementation plan that was approved to support it
No, because the standard is to have IFSAC PROBOARD now. Like I said, experience can’t be taught, and that is what these new folks are missing. It will take some time. It used to take a while to promote, and that’s where the experience as a seasonal came from. The increased need in promotions has removed that experience opportunity.
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Very true. Many of the things regarding training and experience issues I see mentioned have been around for eons/years. I remember going to the LT FAE 10 day and we had several who were first year seasonals with no prior experience. Some made it, some didn’t. Some couldn’t drive a 2 speed rear end to save themselves. Some with just 1 year seasonal time were thrown into Sched A stations with 1-0 staffing.
About midway thru my career we began losing our older more experienced folks to retirement. (Every rank all the way up.) I was lucky and had a lot of experienced old schoolers step up to he plate and helped groom us. We survived and got the job done. Shifts changed as well along the way. Most everything got better as we went. You guys that have been around a spell take the initiative and step up and offering as much training as you can. Training doesn’t only occur and stop at the academy level. 
Without proper training you can’t gain the ‘experience’.
Things may be a bit more lop sided nowadays, but as a whole you can overcome it. We did. Then 20 years or so down the road it will start all over again lol. It’s called attrition. If as much positive energy vs. the negative energy I’ve been seeing/hearing is put forward things will improve. I’m not saying you don’t have legit concerns and complaints. We did too, but many stepped forward to ease the load and situation. You guys can do it! Us old farts did! Back then the ‘family’ values were evident. Stay positive and do your part.
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Actually when I went to Basic Fire Control (as it was called then), we were given investigative reports to write and then grilled in a mock court scenario. Humbling at worst, very enlightening at best.
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If you don’t think that standards have dropped significantly then your lying to yourself and aren’t being objective. Experience aside. It’s nearly impossible to fail given the increased number of tries to pass, the unlimited time to complete the manipulative tasks, and it doesn’t even matter if you complete them in order. Just as long as you hit the item.
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Local academy’s at community college that use to have 48 students and a 20 person waiting list each semester struggle to start a class with 40 students. Those academy’s are 16-18 weeks and are IFSAC / ProBoard.
Local Government academys which are ALA’s do in fact have higher standards than those of SFT. Some LG ALA’s take what we teach/test and know as the 5 in 1 test and add catching a hydrant, forward lay and fire attack and it becomes a 7 or even 10 different combined tests. Those 16-18 cover everything in SFT FF1 and SFT FF2 and don’t include anything Company Officer Related.
Yet, LG, FS, BLM, NPS, and CF are all competing for the same ever dwindling size of the labor pool.
But only CF is trying to grow by 500-800 people per year for the next 5yr not including attrition.
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One thing to remember here as well is that the larger counties used to have large pools of already trained, for the most part, Volunteer’s who had experience, cert’s, and unit training before being picked up. Many were seasonal’s and when that ended Volunteer’s until the following season. It was a large pool to choose from and ready to hire. That doesn’t exist today. It’s seems like timing is everything and the current 66 hr. changeover is happening at a bad time when large numbers of bodies just aren’t available to fill jobs. So, what’s really changed? For some time it appears the forced O.T. and being kept on duty for long durations will continue. The O.T. that will be available seems to be more to fill shifts than before. With people refusing to take O.T. shifts it’s forcey bear! Maybe in the long run this changes and improves but it will be long after many have retired, or moved on to other departments. The issue gets worse before it gets better the way I see it. Glad I’m retired!
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What manipulative task has unlimited time? It’s definitely possible to fail, which happens multiple times every academy.
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The community college academies are that long because they are part time. Even local gov academies are held to the same ALA standard. Most are the length they are because of department specific training baked in.
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Well it’s easier to list the ones that do have a time component. Ppe/scba, fire shelter, and aircraft drop safety. The other 20 plus evaluations of mandatory or possible manipulatives have no time requirements. You can take as long as you want to stretch line, throw ladders, breech a door. It’s a walk in the park. Couple that with 4 chances to pass you would have to be a complete idiot to fail.
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Whoa, Things have changed bigtime.
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Me too sir. Hit every rung in the ladder to Captain. It usually works out for us. Folks adapt as long as we keep the “Can Do” attitude. I hope I did my part mentoring the few folks I worked with. their all higher ranks now long after I retired. So I feel good about that.
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No
That is a full time, M-F 7-5 with 1hr for lunch. Full semester
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I say shut this thread down. Appreciate the mods for hanging it out there for so long. I suppose now, that eventually we will be more comparatively scheduled to LG. But LG jobs will also be more competitive with more prospective applicants from CF. You can’t deny our state provided training platform. Thanks to the respectable contributors to this thread.
Also, PS… I started loading our unit’s “2pp rotate backwards?” Into my phones Apple Calendar.
Even Siri said WTF.
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I agree. What’s done is done. There is nothing further to be discussed and it’s clear that this thread has and is teetering on worthless commentary from both CF and non CF people.
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Whole heartedly support
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Good luck to you all with this new shift.
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Ladies and Gentlemen, the Mods would like to thank you for your professionalism, courtesy and knowledge while posting to this topic. We know its an emotional topic for most you and it has a direct effect on those involved. We feel this topic has run its course and will be closed. Again, thank you for being members of this site.
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