I hear you. I’m talking about the guy that’s living well within their means, and has the completely unexpected kick em in the ass.
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High Desert Prison didn’t close in Susanville, the (older, more run-down) CCC prison did. Was just talking to a buddy who ran Antelope Camp Crews. He says Susanville didn’t seem to take much of a hit from the closure, despite forecasts of economic apocalypse.
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Pretty much not cool to pass that much judgement on people whom you don’t know and whom you are not aware of their personal situations.
10% is a big cut… for anyone and would have a dramatic impact on their lives.
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If 10% is a big cut, what is the other 90%? Any decent financial planner recommends setting aside 15% or base pay towards your retirement. Put another way 10% of base pay is 1 day of unplanned OT a work period.
Where does personal responsibility begin? Not 12mo ago all employees got over a 10% raise (72hr work week compared to 66hr work week with no loss in compensation)
They are not losing their job, they are losing the FCB pay scale. What do we think was going to happen? The director has publicly stated for YEARS 31 camps with a total of 62 crews is inefficient and there should be a min of 4 crews per camp. The hand writing has been on the wall for 3+ years. Anyone that says otherwise doesn’t see the forest through the trees.
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Do you mean to come across so judgey? I think ANY pay cut is unfortunate, and so many folks ARE living close to the edge and just doing the best they can with what they’ve got, especially those in the early stages of their careers. For comparison, think of the Federal folks facing a complete shutdown in this scary, chaotic time.
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One of the best FC’s I ever worked for, Fred Middleton at BTU Robinson Mill Station, spoke to the crew about situations like @Ehoss84 is talking about. And how to be better prepared financially for when those situations happen. I agree that pay cuts are unfortunate, but I’d rather hear hard truth (not judgey) than stick my head in the sand and be unprepared. Real conversations are necessary.
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When I was coming up thru the ranks when I needed extra money I worked O.T., where there was plenty of it available. As a very young man I was already raising a family with a wife and 4 kids. If I could do that in the 90’s and 2000’s I am sure Captains having their FC-B spot cut and potentially losing 10% can also. I’m not being judgy just factual. Since the work hrs. have been reduced from a 72 hr. workweek a day or two of O.T. doesn’t seem that far fetched. I learned long ago sh!t happens in life and you have to learn to roll with the punches and find a way to move forward. It’s not the governments responsibility to take care of people, it’s each individuals responsibility to be motivated by themselves. If there’s a will, there’s a way! Moaning, groaning, and complaining never puts money in your pocket, just makes everyone around you want to leave the room!
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Danger WIll Robinson, DANGER!!
I could be missing something here - feel free to shred/correct me..
I dont read or get the feeling that anyone is trying to say that they are owed anything by anybody (Gov’t or otherwise). Despite that it sure feels like thats now where the conversation is driftng and/or being steered!?
Also, in the spirit of healthy conversation - i think its wrong to try and compare the climate of the 90’s & 2000’s to the now. Also think its misguided to apply individual experiences, realities & perceptions to everyone else. It is also important (imo) to be clear that 10% can be HUGELY IMPACTFULL to an individual regardless of that individuals motivations, laziness and/or knowledge, skills and abilities. I feel like i should be able to apply my situation (coming up in the fire service & starting a family, etc) to others BUT i’ve learned that it is a mistake in most cases to do so. Broad brushing is a watchout situation++
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There is a discussion in General Discussion about our Federal Brothers and Sisters potentially losing more than 10%. We’ve taken pay reduction before. Years ago we took a 15% cut every winter And there wasn’t OT to make it up.
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The fact of the matter is that people are getting displaced and a majority will lose 10%. That could be a significant amount of money. I do feel bad for them, but complaining on the forum here is nothing more than venting at most and will not change what’s going on. We can always look at the glass as half empty and sit in piss and vinegar about losing 10%, or look at the glass as half full and be thankful it’s not a private company where these individuals would just be getting a severance package and replaced with the cheaper new hire option to cost save.
There are still more changes coming. No way closing 5 camps completely fixes the CDCR crew issue at facilities.
Every unit is supposed to have a FF1 fire center too, so that will be another change coming.
Anyone hear anything about CCC crews no longer being able to go on strike teams with FF1 crews? That will have an affect on things.
The best thing to look at is if there are rumors of some place closing down, start looking to transfer to a place that doesn’t have those rumors. Best way to secure not getting displaced.
And at the end of the day, it’s still a great job and great career. Telling yourself and others that does help you keep a positive mindset towards things.
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When I came to CF in 2019 it was like night and day difference from my federal salary. Not soley because I made more money but because there are other intangibles that are extremely impactful. Things like not driving to work and spending gas 5 days a week, not having to buy food at market price daily for breakfast and lunch.
Those 2 things are just a few that made a big difference in my life. Every contract negotiation since then where people have been frustrated and talking about how much more we should make, I’ve been still secretly content and happy with what I’m earning.
Not that I dont like pay increase because I do however, what Ehoss highlights is at what point do we accept the blame for not being more responsible. Even though I’m doing much better now than ever, I am still not nearly as responsible as I should be. I also take care of my mother and am a fall back for my problematic brother…
Which I believe is what the other side of the argument was making, some problems that we cant control effect us and 10% used to afford more comfort and negotiable financial support.
But I think we should all strive to be better stewards of the future and our behavior is only compounding the current problems we face personally and as a society, we somehow believe because we work harder than most and do something noble as a profession that we are less susceptible to criticism.
I’m with Ehoss here, we can and need to do better. It’s simply exhausting but a cross we should bare.
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My only point is it can be done. If I could do it anyone can!
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For what it’s worth I think your post makes total sense - good points across the board! I also think that there are complexities of the social science / human factors variety that run deep in those points AND those things are not easily understood, appreciated or articulated in the thread…
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For what it is worth, a career is nothing more than a strategic chain of events. Any indavidual who chooses to move to camp does so hopefully being fully aware of todays political environment. Yes it is 10%, yes it is a 4 day work week ( in my unit) yes you get to go home at night. But california has been impacting cdcr camps for over 10 years. Anybody who is caught off guard by these changes is eithor ignorant or incompetent. Time will tell. We work for the state, budget cuts are always looming, keep your house in order and your plan ever fluid. My intention is not to be rude or curt, more of frank and too the point. It sucks, I get it. Move on and make the best of things
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From LA Times.
SACRAMENTO — Gov. Gavin Newsom on Monday signed legislation to boost the pay of state prisoners assigned to battle California wildfires.
Assembly Bill 247, whose author is Assemblymember Isaac Bryan (D-Los Angeles), raises wages from about $1 an hour to the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. The wages remain far below the state wage of $16.50 an hour.
The legislation takes effect immediately and was expected to pass after Newsom signed a budget this year that allocates $10 million for incarcerated firefighters’ wages.
Prison fire crews are a significant part of the state’s effort to battle wildfires. In January, more than 1,000 prisoners worked on the devastating fires in Altadena and Pacific Palisades, with some earning less than $30 a day.
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But Vetoed A pay raise for Firefighters? Wild.
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The drastic need for virtue signaling towards those who break laws regularly in this state and many others is disgraceful.
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I’ve waited for cooler heads to prevail and remind you Camps have “closed” before. Slack Canyon, Black Mountain, Murrieta to name a few. Others have been repurposed from inmates to CEC/CCC and back. From CYA to CDC and now paid FF1s. We currently can field more crews than in recent history and are filling in the gaps left by our federal partners. I am reminded of the two things firefighters hate the most. The way things are AND change. End of report.
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I want to note that the Inmate FF’d of today are paid he same as they were in 1966. CDCR has blocked all attempts to correct this too. Shameful.
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Not really sure what you’re advocating for here 
do you believe they need pay bumps?
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