Thanks for the suggestion everyone looking nervous I didn’t intend for anything to grow a life of it’s own looking for an exit
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When are the general public going to learn just listen to the professionals. We know what we are doing! To play the second guessing game is a gamble. There is a reason all the planning and forethought are considered for an evacuation order, or warning. It isn’t decided lightly or just because someone wants to inconvenience the public. I’ve been on several fires where people thInk they can take care of themselves only to call later for assistance in evacuating. It always ends up putting themselves and firefighters in harms way for something that could have been avoided If they would have listened in the beginning. It’s about avoiding unnecessary risk in an already risky situation. If you are told to go, go! Period! Help us help you!
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I wouldn’t go as far as to say trust the professionals hands down, I have personally experienced a mandatory evacuation and the closest the fire came was just over 8 miles away
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Sometimes they need to move people from an area for access points, equipment, and staging … in preparation for what maybe coming or where they need to go.
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Here is the standard terminology for California from OES.CAL OES Standard Evacuation Terminology.pdf (470.3 KB) Hope this clears things up.
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We can have this discussion ad nauseum but we are not the warning, order audience. The general public is the audience. We also know that many people don’t care about a warning or order, they are going to stay to protect their property and homes. So, we can talk about it but I wouldn’t waste a lot of air talking to firefighters about it. It’s certainly an important topic just wrong audience. My 2 cents!
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Evacuating isn’t always a walk in the park for a lot of people. Add the fact that many people have been evacuated so many times without issues to their property and they begin to get over it.
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Complacency is NOT AN OPTION. But we know that here 
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One of the key things that exemplified on the Camp Fire 2018 and the Woosley Fire 2018 was the need to plan for not only a primary but secondary and tertiary escape route in your plan. In many of these events, the movement of people, both into and out of the fire zones are slower than the event is evolving. These two examples are prime examples of both Urban and Rural settings where the event was rapidly outpacing the need to move people and resources throughout the zones.
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I agree I went thru the Camp fire. No amount of warning could have prepared any of us for that day. You get a warning just go don’t wait sometimes there is no time to wait for the order and it will be too late. The ’ ahh it’s ok nothing to worry about" people are the ones that jam up the streets and cause accidents and promote anxiety in a already stress filled situation and put tons of other people’s lives at risk as well. Not cool. IMO. If you have the ability to go just go. Better safe than sorry.
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Some of us aren’t firefighters but understand the risk that staying behind poses to everyone involved, if anyone had chose to stay disobeying the Evacuation order for alder springs and pine ridge on Sept 6 they would have been caught up in a situation that was not survivable on the 7th unless someone forcibly removed them before the that evening.
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Some states do not allow a mandatory order.
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To back up what you just stated…My kid was on the Creek Fire. I always told him I would stay and defend and if things got bad I would go to the cul de sac with my fire shelter. When he got back from that fire first thing he said to me " I saw Fire Behavior you would not survive in a fire shelter with clearance. And if that didn’t get you the 24" timber that snapped off in the wind would of.
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I wish the news outlets would stop interviewing and glorifying the folks who stay behind, armed with a water hose. It’s just too dangerous!
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It’s a tough choice…Work all your life for what you have, hard to see it go. The way a lot of these fires are burning you not going to survive a big flame front.
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For the sake of the argument I have met several people who stayed and saved their own home and were able to save neighbors homes as well
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I would not stay and try to defend with a water hose. However, being evacuated from the Willow Fire (2015?) in MMU, we got horses and valuables out and my wife & daughters went to family in the valley. My son and I stayed simply because once you’re out; you’re out until all is lifted. Of course Camp Fire, Creek Fire had the night time behavior that causes these catastrophic burns - and they are different. We would have left in those cases and I advised my family in the area to leave at first notice of the Creek Fire. As far as me staying for The Willow, we were in the order area and would have left on dirt bikes had the fire turned our way. Too much looting had occurred to just leave when the fire was not heading our way. We would NOT have tried to leave in trucks or wait to evac and get in the way of working vehicles. So, I get those that stay, as long as they aren’t expecting to call to assistance later, or expect to get large vehicles, etc. out at last minute. Our sheriff’s dept did great after a large looting event and for following fires, they would escort residents in to check on things, or get odds and ends when the situation allowed. This was because most refused to Evac because of previous looting. So, that was a way to encourage evacuation on warnings.
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Definitely can see why people stay. I would stay and have in the past. It’s not for everyone. There’s a lot of places that could be saved with just a homeowner and good clearance. I never have and never will be one to tell people they have to go. All you can do is give them the recommendation and move on.
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And don’t look back. You have done all that should be asked of you.
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At first I thought naw this isn’t deserving of it’s own thread… now I disagree with myself LOL. A few comments on what I have read:
- Not all people on this site are firefighters. Quite a few civilians, including myself are joining as a faster source of info on the behavior and direction of these critical fires than typical news outlets provide.
- Thank you to those of you that are experienced and knowledgeable in the field providing useful information.
- As yarddog11 mentioned, another reason people wish to stay and defend is against looters. Sucks to leave, have your house not burn, and return to theft and vandalism. My parents lost their house only to discover someone had stolen the brand new well pump which was needed before construction could begin.
- As Mz.JekleNHyde said, the Camp fire was so fast and vicious, would planning have helped much, if at all? Mix that kind of fire with getting that many people out of an area with limited routes doesn’t have a good chance of ending well. Fortunately, few fires are like Camp or Oakland Hills or other firestorms and allow more time to alert and evacuate than that day. Did any communities that are vulnerable like that take it as a serious warning and do anything about preparing for devastating fires? What did they do? To what extremes should any of them prepare? Who should be responsible to make it happen? Who pays for it?
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