This idea we have to protect people from bad news is tricky. The media flies live videos of burning houses all day long in SoCal, and an army of fire photographers was streaming photos of dead houses onto Twitter while they were still on fire, yesterday. If 10 houses burn down in a neighborhood, should we not share a map showing the 500 that did not, leaving those 500 people hanging so we can delay the bad news for 10 families?
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I wouldnāt say it is very accessible to all fire personnel. Our parent company runs 7 Type II IA contract hand crews and over a dozen contract engines. None of our sups have access to the EGP. And I have hotshot crewmembers reaching out to me for intel that donāt know anything about the EGP.
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have they put the request in? talked to Triplett at all?
I donāt know.
I dont work for the USFS anymore, heck the internet came out when I was a hotshot lol but I dont know how well they advertise the EGP for data. Seems like all the crews know Avenza but EGP/Intterra may not be as advertised used in the field. Part of that might be the fact that without connectivity it doesnt do much.
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AJ, I know the power of open source will specifically empower ATAK and that is good thing. Itās just going to take time to shift culture at executive leadership levels. We have come very far from just 5 years ago to what is available.
Please know a lot of people every day from multiple agencies are putting work in to get intel in the hands off the IC to the first year firefighter.
Pyro, have your contract employees tried applying for an EGP account ? If so and have been denied please DM me and we can talk more about it. Also, hotshot firefighters who donāt know about EGP is just a culture shift that we all need to work on. Like I said earlier many people are working daily to educate, but the captains of crews from all functional areas need to learn to get with times and teach tech to their firefighters. And all tech savy firefighters need to lead up and teach their stubborn old school leadership the way we are doing business in 2022 and beyond. This is a constant work in progress and the cream will rise to the top. Keep pushing forward.
Zek and AJ, thx for passion and leadership in this area.
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Hi there, hoping one of you can help me, and itās ok to ask here in an unofficial capacity. I use SARTopo almost exclusively (do jump a bit to GE if I have to) but for the rest of my work have never needed a network link in SARTopo. Well, with fire info I would love to be able to put the network link in but have not been able to find where I would do that. Can it be done and Iām just missing it? Any tips would be most helpful. Thank you!
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Oh just read your post again you want to use a kml network link in Cal/sar topo.
@mjacobs have you thought about this functionality as a layer tool?
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Why is it that certain people get their posts moved and others do not? With that, of course I will be that guy.
Excuses:
Maybe the AHJ does not want the images released
Maybe the state does not actually own the images
Maybe the images show things that have not been vetted
Maybe a lawyer told someone not toā¦
Just because one agency chooses to release images does not make it right In fact, it is on SM faster than can be vetted these days.
No one is keeping a secret- just a little respect for the people impacted by the incident.
I can tell you that on a particular incident an āagencyā was in a hurry to release some drone footage of destroyed homes. The AHJ protested, but since the other agency in possession of the imagery had an elected official who ran it they released it. 10 mins later the public was quick to point out human remains in one image.
As for the Mountain Fireā¦
There is direct line down the west side of the fire. It was all holding today. The fire made a push this am and burned out a bowl and got really active. Aircraft and dozers and crews were able to begin to go direct, but the smoke closed in and the aircraft had to leave.
It has made it up towards the Scarface area- but west of the escarpment. There is some tricky terrain and fuels types and the fire was burning under RFW when it began.
As far as releasing maps and IAPās.
Give the unit a breakā¦ they had two large fires start withing two hours of each other. One which challenged the counties resources with immediate structure loss, and direct threats to human life. The initial attack personnel were faced with rescues and critically injured civilians.
The second fire broke and was in a remote location and grew rapidly.
The unit had to operationally and logistically support both incidents while balancing the fact that many members of local fire and law agencies were personally impacted the Mill Fire.
An IAP was put out this am and a basic mapā¦ that is all they could put together with that kind of activity.
Today CAL FIRE Team 5 took on the incidents and will have their maps and IAPās up and available for everyone by tomorrow.
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Is it as simple as Cal Fire operates on private property, feds on public? Privacy issues?
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Prolly because it could show very sensitive information such as peoples homes/ propertyās destroyed possibly even unknown fatalities, and donāt want them finding out via some website. Theoretically none of that information should be public known until it needs to be. Not saying you, because you have a wealth of knowledge, but the sense of āI need to know just becauseā is out of control now a days people need to understand that some information needs to be held off due to legal reasons or possible unknown fatality reasons.
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A polygon of where the fire is at is not āsensitiveā data. I can understand the imagery, video if that has some sensitivity to it like what was mentioned above. A polygon though should be made public and can be automated to do so. What are the excuses of delaying or not sharing a polygon of where the fire is? We have government owned and produced data from GOES/VIIRS/MODIS which have much less spatial resolution and is shared widely. Why wouldnt we want to get more accurate and timeley data to the public via a polygon? How is this different than showing a hurricane or a flood? Both completely destroy homes.
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Weāll itās as simple as this, 2 different entities. Each have there own vetting process and legal process of how they get information to the public.
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We are very aware of it lol. The point being its pretty archaic. When the news is showing where the fire is with live shots, social media posts, the fire has been flown 3 times with updated perimeters yet the publicly shared perimeter is tied to a map product from the day before. We can do better than this. I get requests all the time, hey my grandma lives over here, has there been any updates on where the fire is? Many times there are updates yet they arent out to the public yet hours old.
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We talked about the fine line with people seeing their neighborhood burned on a map on our Livestream this morning. Most of the comments (from people affected right now by evacs and fire in their neighborhood were of the theme of āmore info is better, knowing is better than waiting and not knowingā.
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Maybe, but thatās not what Kobi Bryantās family said. Itās one thing when it comes from public at large, another when itās govt source.
@bootstrap are you comparing pictures of a dead body to a polygon of a fire perimeter or picture of a house on fire?
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Video of that sort and the polygons we have been discussing arenāt the same bootstrap.
H-S
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