Iv heard some IHC’s/crews getting demobed for refusing some assignments on one of the SoCal fires any word or input?
1 Like
There’s an article on “The Hot Shot Wake Up”. I didn’t read the whole article it’s a paid subscription. Bet there will be a lot more out there soon on this.
2 Likes
Well I guess just start ripping that page out of the irpg if this has some validity to it or have some rebuttal quick 
2 Likes
This is a topic that has reared its ugly head due to multiple factors. Inexperience in leadership positions, pencil whipping task books, and a changing wildfire environment are all coming to light. I also would love for transparency but doubt we get it. All info will be 3rd or 5th hand or worse.
Keep your head on a swivel, be an advocate for yourself and your crews, remember going home at the end of the fire is the ultimate goal.
20 Likes
Agreed, no shame in what the leadership did. I witnessed some of it on a fire last month with overhead getting “upset” for crews turning down assignments… it’s pretty bad when people are less worried about fire behavior then the 25 year old running divisions…
6 Likes
This goes both ways right now unfortunately. I’ve also seen those same young and inexperienced leaders on engines and crew supervisors turning down assignments, that frankly there is no reason to turn down. At the end of the day, we all need to accept the current climate we are in and open up the doors for more communication and mentorship, even if it is right on the spot. And that needs to go both up and down the chain of command.
10 Likes
Here’s the podcast for those looking for it.
9 Likes
If “young, inexperienced leaders” have the wherewithal to know their own limits and have the brains to stick by that, then maybe they’re not so inexperienced after all.
28 Likes
The pod cast lays out a pretty good case for not choosing to accept the assignment. His using the 18/8’s show how and why those were created in the first place.
7 Likes
Send them to Orange County. Can’t fill any IHC’s.
12 Likes
I’d hate to be a catalyst in this conversation, but hear me out. We look at a multitude of issues with younger generations living up to our forefathers.
Are people promoting too soon? Yes.
Are mentors not mentoring enough? Yes.
Are conditions more extreme than 20+ years ago? I’m not gonna get into that.
Are today’s fighters softer than 10 years ago? Also yes, unfortunately they are.
As a dozer operator on the line the past 15 years, I’ve seen some change. Not as much change as the older dogs I’m sure. I’ll gladly accept my place in the wild land firefighting hierarchy. But things have changed.
What I’m getting at is I’ve witnessed several assignments turned down because of work ethic and motivation. In all job titles across the board. And as a mentor, I take it personally thinking I have not taught enough or trained enough with those less seasoned as I. But another factor of todays wildland fire business is social media and outlets to complain to. Because all we hear is “I got sent home because I turned down an assignment.” Without validity of the assignment safety or if another crew successfully completed said assignment.
19 Likes
So… what fire was this on? He says on the podcast the the IMT wasn’t fed… so……?
3 Likes
He doesn’t state which fire it was. But it was not a FS team or a BLM team or which state. But he does give a clue as to where this occured if your willing to do some research.
3 Likes
Yeah I did he said google manzanita and mountain mahogany fuel types… and that leads to “various parts of the western United States and Mexico…” maybe my googling skills are lacking
4 Likes
While I agree with you on multiple points here, the turndown details are not validated yet. If there was an appropriate procedure followed (listed in the IRPG, to include an alternative method to accomplish the task) then there should be no one hanging their head over it.
It becomes difficult when division supervisors (or trainees) don’t have the ability to report back to ops that they didn’t get more black to put on the map, and then take it personally.
Having been part of a “turndown” myself (and subsequently released from the incident) I sleep just fine at night. The crews after us turned it down as well, which they weren’t informed about our turndown before them to add insult to injury. Ultimately we got assigned to an IA fire and got to go direct the same night we were released, and the original line the DIVs wanted never got done. It was tied in with retardant and held the next operational period.
So my point is there’s two sides to every story and ultimately when egos get involved everybody looses. Every DIVS or trainee has a job to do, but if it puts anyone in jeopardy on the line, let it rip off another 100 acres and reassess the plan obviously barring any life or infrastructure threats. Risk a lot to save a lot, risk little to save little, the brush grows back.
Like in my above post, id love to hear the real story but I doubt we will ever get that luxury.
12 Likes
See second post. It is on the picture.
3 Likes
I absolutely agree with you. There is a reason we have page 19 in the irpg. I myself turn down assignments on the regular for safety or even ability to execute the task.
But let’s consider what it takes to get kicked off a fire when we have more fire than resources in the west. Because I guarantee replacing that resource on the line wasn’t easy. Either too many jobs were declined by the crew without good reasoning. Or the fire was winding down anyway.
But last week I had a shot crew burn rubber on our div due to “fire behavior” and the reality was they wanted to be first in line for chow.
So let’s remember there are three sides to every story.
7 Likes
Kids listen to loud jazz music and don’t respect me, the guy who invented fire!
7 Likes
It was on the Line Fire.
2 Likes