Large Concern

Several of the recent starts in Southern California are being suspected arson. In conjunction with recent events around the US involving arson fires and threats to specifically the ‘suburbs’, my general concern as we head into offshore wind season is there could be more to come…

I’m looking for some thoughts on the situation, reminder NO politics and if this is too controversial a thread then MODS please lock it.

7 Likes

Agreed, it’s 2001 season again same threat different situation.

2 Likes

A lot of arsonists start fires when events in their lives don’t go the way they want. With COVID, the economic down turn, and the social unrest facing our state and country, it is no surprise that an arsonist might begin starting fires again. I know in my area we have seen a dramatic uptick in arson caused fires in the last few months, however we have a large transient population. I have found no correlation between the current events and the fire setting behavior. That being said, those folks represent a very minute percentage of the population, so how they will play into the fire events throughout the season remains to be seen. It is certainly prudent for the fire community to be observant and keep an eye out for suspicious activity in and around fires they respond to.

10 Likes

Absolute concern, the threat is very real, and my concern is a media build up to let potential subject know exactly when and where a high threat is.

8 Likes

I have always thought about this but avoided discussing it on here so that hopefully nobody would get any ideas.

8 Likes

Thank you for your insight but can you please refrain from derogatory racial terms in reference to Asian cultures. We have people of that background that are out there fighting fires as we speak, and I’m sure would not appreciate that term.
Thank you.

9 Likes

Not to mention those incendiary devices were used in the winter and largely affect the pacific north west.

Fire has long been used as a weapon through history and continues to be an effective means of terrorism to this day.

In his keynote address at the Firehouse World conference in San Diego, Robert Baird, Fire and Aviation Management, U.S. Forest Service, said pyroterrorism is something all responders need to be prepared to combat.

“Arson in the Wildland/Urban interface is a real threat,”. “Anything we can do to reduce it is a real accomplishment."

Baird gave a quick review of the use of arson and pyroterrorism throughout modern history, starting with the fire balloon bombs Japan launched on the mainland United States during World War II. Of the 9,000 launched, 300 hit the mainland.

In 2004 (NIFC) suggested that Al Queda had plans to start wildland fires in Montana, Wyoming, Utah and Colorado, Baird said, noting that all the material he was presenting was unclassified information and his interpretations and analysis were his own.

Raymond Lee Oyler, the man charged and convicted for setting the deadly Esperanza Fire in 2006 that claimed the lives of five firefighters, is yet another example of arson as a form of terrorism. Oyler was also suspected of starting as many as 25 other fires.

The best way to combat pyroterrorism, according to Baird, is to have a “cohesive wildland fire strategy” and to develop partnerships across all agencies to develop good tactical information.

While there may be many challenges to curbing pyroterrorism, Baird said developing “robust intelligence” on suspects and plots will go a long way toward achieving the goal.

It also helps to prevent fuel build-up that can contribute to the severity of wildland fires, Baird said, noting that fire officials need to know when to extinguish fires and when to let them burn to mitigate that potentially threatening fuel build-up.

4 Likes

James Haag was suspected to have set at least 30 fires across a couple of states and unfortunately a Fresno county sheriffs deputy was shot and killed by a person breaking into a house that was evacuated during the Dunlap fire. He set the highway fire on 168, that was the first fire I ever saw.

1 Like

Due to observant citizens in Angels Camp, a transient woman was caught who is suspected of starting the TCU O’Rielly fire, among others. Posts from around towns along Highway 49 gave the sense the people were relieved and hoped LE would keep her locked up. Personally, I think she should at least be evaluated for mental competency. The transient situation has gotten pretty dangerous through out the State. We need to keep our eyes open.

6 Likes

The Los Angeles Regional Training Group (LARTG) sent out a bulletin last week explaining that terrorist cells where targeting lone wolves to start brush fires which destroy lives, property, and the environment. I hope this isn’t the case…2020 is bad enough :-1:t3:

2 Likes

Or… It could just be one dude that likes fires and has done his homework and is putting them in the right spots at the right time.

4 Likes

Your giving 1 dude a lot of credit.

1 Like

Wow. Pure insanity.

Good afternoon everyone, so Staff has not made a concrete Yes/NO on this topic. We WILL BE WATCHING it VERY CLOSELY. PLEASEEEEE, don’t get outa hand with this. IT could get political very quickly and this is NOT what this site is all about. OK pumpkin?

15 Likes

Thanks for that. Speculation can bring conspiracy theories. This site has been great this year and want to keep things on topic.

5 Likes

Tells the story of a Japanese pilot using a submarine launched bomber to drop incendiaries in the forests near Brookings, Oregon in World War II. Totally ineffective. He went on to become a successful businessman and developed a relationship/friendship with the town he’d bombed (I remember hearing the story growing up in Crescent City, CA).

Defensible space, structure hardening, and vigilant awareness minimize property losses and human lives lost. The mind-boggling efforts put forth by the State, Federal and Local fire agencies further minimize the human effects. It’s still terrible when it happens but improving even as population pressures push further into less developed spaces.

Modern technology is putting resources where they need to be faster: air and ground resources are much more effective today than they were five, ten, fifty years ago. How many fires on this site have been reported by somebody watching the “Alert Wildfire” cameras? I gave my brother in New York the link and now he’s trying to spot fires. Using the internet to fight fire! Let that sink in for a minute.

A savvy arsonist (not very likely) might raise hell for awhile but he’ll get caught, and whatever fires he starts will get put out.

4 Likes

Think you mean using the internet to “find” fires.

My Dad was part of the Army team that investigated Fujita’s flight as well as a large number of candle- powered hot-air fire balloons launched off of Japanese submarines all along the west coast. They were primitive but ingenious. They were made of heavy rice paper with several candles up inside so that they were protected from the wind. There was enough heat to generate a lot of lift.
The investigative team cut some of them up for souvenirs.
I have half of one of the balloons.
Pretty neat piece of history.

6 Likes

Yep! I was at that fire. We were doing a crew aar when we heard the gun shots. A CHP officer drove up and told us to stay exactly where we were (on the side of the road on the 180) until cleared to head in to camp. We drove passed the property and saw the aftermath. Very sobering.