Now that the medical payment issue has surfaced, I kind of understand the membership’s confusion on the ratification vote.
After all, how can the membership fully understand the agreement when even CalHR and 2881 can’t agree on the details of the terms they agreed to in the agreement?
Like the saying goes, where there’s smoke…there’s mirrors, and it’s all smoke and mirrors until someone gets hurt.
Nothing has surfaced with the medical payments, it was right in the contract. All people needed to do was actually read what they were agreeing to.
It’s as plain and non-confusing as could be, if people just read what they were voting on.
The contract language for the medical payments reads, “Effective the first day of the pay period following ratification by both parties, through June 30, 2024. Im not sure how this was confusing for people. People need to do their own research and not just believe what they are being sold.
I completely understand and agree with what you’re saying and have been under the same impression since the day the agreement was first announced.
However, the email last week from 2881 with the letter from Gary Messing seems to indicate that there may be more to the text you quoted than meets the eye.
How can we expect the rest of the membership to make an informed and educated vote when even the people who actually negotiated the agreement don’t agree on what they agreed upon?
There are so many nuances and moving parts to all the MOUs over the years that I think the membership as a whole gets overwhealmed trying to process it all and just defaults to a “yes” vote, which is unfortunate.
Agreed. And while everyone should read what we are agreeing to….
We also should be able to trust and rely upon the people WE PAY to give us accurate and factual information.
You must have some really shitty local leadership if you feel that you’ve ever been lied to or misled. I personally have never felt pressured or swayed either direction and presented nothing but strictly the facts. If your Chapter is that corrupt, then why not get involved yourself to change things?
I love the union line of “then get involved”. Like the 25k I’ve paid over my career isnt enough. I need to “get involved” to get simple answers.
2881 is reliant on us as a membership. It is OUR labor union. You do realize that all of the officers, reps, leaders including the VP and President pay dues as well right? Sure, the guys at HQ do it full time, but 90% of our union leadership is guys who work in the field and do their role either during down time or in their off time. A lot of it goes unpaid and unrecognized. For anyone to think they just pay dues to some organization and have things handed to them on a plate, with no understanding of the work that goes on behind the scenes, is beyond me. It sounds like you don’t understand how a union works, and are in need of a slice of humble pie. This isn’t like paying taxes and expecting roads to be in good order because you do so. Involvement is crucial, and without the people who have stepped up in place to help with the local level issues, the union would be nothing. I’ve paid well over $25k in my lifetime, and it’s been worth every penny.
Funny, you say that last election we voted out our rank-and-file Director and they created a new position for him so that he still involved. So yes, may be. The problem is my chapter. But then again, Sacramento allows those things to happen.
Sure, those things can happen. But did you run against him?
I think the slice of pie needs to come from the union. Asking simple questions shouldn’t be like this. Having a thorough discussion about our contract shouldn’t be this giant game of cat and mouse. Like trying to nail jello to a wall.
In the end the contract will be dropped on the membership at the last minute with a rushed vote. The cycle will continue. I cant count on my fingers and toes how many times I heard “I’ll have to get an answer on that” and they still held a vote.
Is the only way to get answers to become a member of the bargaining team?? Is there really a signed NDA on contract negotiations or is it policy??
No. Someone else did and won. So they made him a new position.
And frankly I’ve found I can do more for my people as an engaged leader than I ever could in the union.
This is how every MOU vote I can remember has been, but it’s not because of 2881’s doing. It’s how CalHR works. It’s a recurrent theme with every Bargaining Unit.
There are regular meetings for months, then CalHR goes silent and comes back with a surprise offer for every Bargaining Unit at the same time right at the end of the legislative window the last week of August and it’s a rush to get it through the legislature before the end of the legislative session.
Watch, it’ll be the same this year, every Unit that’s at the table right now (I think there are 4) will announce a Tentative Agreement in the same week. You think it’s a coincidence that all the TAs come out in rapid fire succession each year? Nope. It’s by design.
I think the major difference is, and it was talked about above, those bargaining units are engaging their members throughout the process. It isn’t a giant surprise when the agreement is viewed by the membership. They won’t send a contract to vote if they’re worried about it being voted down.
Their have been multiple forums to beat the process up that have been place since the first MOU between the State and CalFire Local 2881 the Representative for Bargaining Init 8.
We have heard it all before and unfortunately what you are asking for is not included in the process.
If you’re not happy, maybe you should explore a new employer, obviously to some of you the grass is greener on the other side of the hill.
Having been there and done that during multiple contract negotiations, even why wife did not know what the negotiations included until there was a final agreement.
Every section of the MOU and specifically those sections that effect your working conditions and all of your employee compensation are subject to change until there is a last best and final offer by the State.
It then falls to the 5 members who represent Unit 8 at the bargaining team, not the union Leadership, not the L2881 Executive Board and not the Legal Consul will have a decision to make. Having been there, the weight of the world as you describe your concerns is on their shoulders.
They can accept the Last Best and Final and start the Legislative Process and ultimately Membership Ratification, or
Reject the proposal and begin the impasse process through PERB.
Anything you think you know regarding the proposed final elements that will be included in the last best and final offer are purely speculative. Even the Negotiation team does not know what is the last best and final until it is passed across for the L2881 Negotiation Team Members to weigh. As I previously stated, there is a large weight on the shoulders and it is not an easy decision to accept or reject. There will be serious discussions, often heated before the Team makes a decision based on what has been presented tru out the process and best information available from others like the Union President, legislative advocate and legal counsel.
Yes, the impact of each of the Bargaining unit contracts that are in process is taken into consideration as the State moves toward completion for each Bargaining Unit. I can guarantee that the members of the other Bargaining Units even as you say have been kept informed throughout the process know what the totality of their agreement will look like as all of them have moving pieces, some pieces that effect every open contract in the state and pieces that only apply to one employee classification
When the Last Best and Final has been passed, the external processes will begin and then and then will the contents be announced consistent with MOU Section 16.5 which you ratified as part of the last MOU!!
Just shut up and be happy what we get… Got it
Pretty sure my monthly dues, and my leave credit the barging team is using give me the right to ask questions, and express concern.
You’re entitled to vote yes, or no when it comes to ratification. Just like everyone else.
My favorite reply. Maybe you should leave!! How dare you want something better!!
I can’t imagine why we have a retention problem….
When hear those words uttered, I know we aren’t being heard anymore. It’s a “I’m taking my ball and going home” approach to addressing difficult issues. The union is just lacking at communicating, pure and simple. We aren’t saying they can’t improve, we are saying we want them to improve. That’s really all. Should we do research about it sure. But isn’t the whole reason we have Union and reps is to represent and inform. Not from an opinion based perspective but rather facts. And if there are questions, then have a way to address those quickly. Heck why not invest in AI where employees can ask questions and over time the data base of information will expand to address issues asked by members. Frees up reps and gives members a better access point. That way the information is just facts. Like members want. Take away the bias of human error and opinion on issues.
What’s funny is that in my 20 years I’ve heard that a lot more from the union than from management….
Man I gotta say this all makes me so glad I retired ASAP….
It’s frustrating seeing you all go through this ……again
If you’re old enough pull the rip cord. If you’re young enough start testing….
They aren’t going to ever change…
Sorry guys