Well, I appreciate your words, but if and when I do go to SP4, I’m going to file a grievance for resolution and tell them to go talk to BadBrad
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I’ll write the grievance.
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Dude… Station FCs can’t do SP4. It is NOT an option for them, That’s this whole conversation and what I’m saying. It’s like when I talk to the union they don’t get it. And you just confirmed it
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Can someone screen shot the dang shift patterns and post it please.
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Reading the temperature of the room right now just tells me the Union dropped the ball(putting it nicely) on this whole process.
All these questions should be directed towards your reps and officers. And nothing other than a clear and detailed answer should be accepted.
There are so many unknowns.
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Yes they can…
Everyone but engines and paramedics has SP4 as an option for shifts
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There’s way too many options to post here. We printed them all out it was like 8 packets each showing all three shifts.
I’m corrected on the BCs. Thanks, but I still don’t dig how stations can’t do SP4
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Every meeting that is held to vote on the TA should have a bargaining team member present (either in person or vis zoom) to answer questions.
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This is great dialogue 
, SP4 effects too many people to not have clarity about it. Like I said my chapter said admin but couldn’t provide the ink, then rebuttal’s that it was used as a negotiating term
Snake oil.
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So, your saying the B8 FC’S, HFEO, FAE’S, and BC’S assigned to a fuels program/crew will not be on SP4? What about FC’S in PRE-FIRE positions that are utilized for in unit IA and overhead needs in/out of the unit? Training staff is regularly utilized for IA and in/out of unit overhead as well, so no SP4 for them? Nothing is concrete, left open for interpretation and history will repeat itself with our people getting shoved onto SP4, the new NIRA/IRA.
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Fuels crews are a weird one… my guess as to why they aren’t on SP1 is because the Forestry Techs are 40hr employees.
I use schedule A as a bit of a philosophical leverage point for the department. My question is this, if we were still STRICTLY a Schedule B department would we really be working towards a 56? Maybe, maybe not. But I do believe the added elements of what a schedule A is create a broader responsibility for CF as a whole, and the consistent representation of our Department as all-risk+, has helped our cause. Yes we are primarily Schedule B. But if that’s all we were, would we be where we are now. I know we want to believe it would, cause we all know how hard B is, but that coupled with municipal responsibility is a hell of an argument towards improved working conditions. If you look at our branding, that is how we got to where we are. I’m a schedule B guy, through and through, but I also understand how the two responsibilities complement each other to leverage better working conditions.
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Not talking about the FT’S. The perm FC,FAE, HFEO, BC that supervise them and run the program.
I can see and respect your points but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s the employees and their families subsidizing cheap fire protection for local municipalities.
Schedule A aside, CAL FIRE is California’s Fire Department correct? So we should be on the same schedule as literally every other department in California.
If the logic is that shift pattern 4 is for admin types with no suppression response, how do they still meet the requirements to be FLSA exempt?
One of the requirements to be exempt is emergency response duties. If you don’t meet that requirement, it’s OT after 40 hours a week according to FLSA.
If that’s the case, it seems like shift pattern 4 should be 10 10 10 10 with no standby and use an OT divisor of 40 instead of 53.
Many other fire departments put their training, PIO, (and other admin type positions that are filled with people that came up in the suppression ranks) on a 40 hour clock at the same annual salary as the suppression Captain or BC equivalent for this very reason. No reason CAL FIRE shouldn’t do the same.
The other side of this is how many “admin” people fill ICA eligible positions on fires? How many times have you seen Sacramento HQ or Southern Region or Office of the State Fire Marshal on name tags at briefing in the morning? What positions are they filling? I’d say most are probably Division, Branch, FOBS, Suppression Repair, Air Ops Branch Director, Helco, and other direct fire suppression related positions.
The way I see it, you’re either 40 hour admin and not FLSA exempt or you’re considered suppression and have some variation of shift pattern 1.
You can’t have it both ways.
Maybe move whatever positions the state considers to be admin to section 8.4 with the Foresters and spell out exactly which positions are considered admin or non suppression instead of basically leaving it up to each unit to do their own thing.
It was CAL HR that refused to allow any proposed MOU without a 4 day work week option. The hours are certainly weird, it would have looked better as a 18-18-18-12with 26 hours of standby than what they put in the schedule, but the 24-22-10-10 does guarantee the employee gets OT for staying late on days they aren’t out by 1800.
As far as size of the agency goes, the largest position number in the agency is FF1, which is somewhere in between 3500-4000 employees. Outside of that schedule A to schedule B is pretty even position for position. Despite what most folks thinks, there will not be a mass exodus of Schedule A contracts because of the 66-hour work week, especially after what happened with the Calimesa exodus. Now when a municipality wants to propose a new service provider for lack of a better term, they have to provide the same level of staffing, equipment, and service (not pay) BUT also a similar level of employee benefits (not a 401k retirement plan, but a pers style equivalent) so the costs become astronomical. I’ve heard of one comparison being $1 million dollars more per fire station increase in a 3 station contract city to join a neighboring large municipal style agency.
A new provision as part of this TA is ALL employees (at the discretion of management) are allowed to respond from an alternate location that is within 30 minutes of their assigned station. This was no longer exclusive to CDCR camps (which have their own response times and rules and FAE’s.)
What I find interesting is if a unit does choose the modified Kelly schedule, how does SP4 fit into that schedule? The whole unit has to put all 8.2 and 8.3 employees on the same schedule, but shift patterns can be different, so how does SP4 fit into the modified Kelly?
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Back to the station/engine shift schedule for a minute. If I’m reading this right, all these options have regularly occurring double ups, where twice as many people show up for work. Aside from being grossly inefficient (which is a management problem), where is everybody going to ride? Or sleep?
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Unfortunately many of California’s fire departments have mandatory OT. I have many other friends that work LG and during the winter months when I’m at games for my kids, they are still stuck at work. So unfortunately Californias fire department is doing the same practice as other departments. I do work schedule B, and during the winter months we move to A to help with staffing issues. I think you also further make the point that CF needs to look at how they manage both sides. CF was never designed or legislated to take on the responsibility of all risk, but they are. Moving into the future it will take a really transformational leader of CF to make this happen. I don’t disagree that CAL FIRE subsidizes A with B personnel to meet the needs of a contract that was likely not well laid out. But the important part is to take incremental steps to apply advocacy from the right places to make this happen. It won’t happen overnight, or likely through a couple contract iterations. It’s going to be a decade long endeavor to correct the mess. When you look back at the transformation of CF, Ruben Grajalva (hope I spelled that correctly) may have moved the needle the most in terms of identifying the need to examine A and B separately. Since then CF has only hired Director’s from within, and like it or not, they are company men looking at how the job helps their retirement and how the title presents a feather in their cap. Disagree with me if you like. I’m ok with that. Perspective moves the needle.