66 Hour Work Week

California & Hawaii Hotlist Questions and Discussion
#989

What does a local government not hiring and staffing adequately have anything to do with our schedule? You are comparing apples to oranges. The majority of FD’s in California have less than 20 stations, CF owns and operates over 1000 stations, it’s a non-comparison.

The reason you move to schedule A in the winter is because the contract is not adequately staffed. That is a department issue not an employee issue, yet it’s the employees who loose.

It’s not schedule B or the state subsidizing schedule A, it’s us the employees and our families, who subsidize cheap fire protection though working longer hours for less pay for communities most of us don’t live in. Additionally it doesn’t only affect schedule A employees, it affects every CF fire suppression employee.

It’s really not hard, the state needs to go to every schedule A contracts and say this is the minimum staffing level. If the local municipalities want to support that minimum staffing level okay, if not they can find a different provider or do it themselves.

The days of the state providing cheap fire protection in exchange for cheap labor on large fires on the backs of the employee needs to come to an end. We have pretty much stopped using cheap labor for handcrews, the same needs to happen for all other positions.

Schedule A is a benefit to the local municipalities and the state, it’s a detriment to the employees and their families.

3 Likes
#990

For OSFM on fires they are assigned mainly to damage assessment minus a few that fill other overhead postions, OSFM is not BU 8 but BU7 and have other schedules that they can opt into ( 5 8s or a 9/9/9/8 with every other Friday or Monday off and anything past the 40 hrs is overtime. On assignment they do not get a portal to portal its 9 hrs straight time and OT till they are in the hotel and it turns to standby time. Then trying to place them into section 8.4 will not work. As far as being on the line everyone is fire line qualified to be on the line as for salary I don’t think they line up exactly .

1 Like
#991

I do not have a dog in the fight but I do pose a question. For the schedule A contracts which couldn’t afford to run their own fire department and elected to contract with CF, does the change in pay and schedule lead those agencies to resume their own agency. Is CF raising cost to place themselves out of their own market? Again, no dog in the fight but if that happens it impacts the California fire service.

#992

Can we move the A vs B talk to another forum? Honestly it’s as exhausting as red vs green or hotels vs tents.

5 Likes
#993

I don’t believe it fits in at all. The “schedule” is for the “shift pattern”. So SP1 will have one of those rotating schedules that the unit will decide which will become the norm for SP1. SP4 schedule is already decided. So if anyone gets put on SP4 it will essentially be the same as it is now which a couple hours of standby shaved off here and there to reduce the hours to 66. It will essentially change nothing for anyone who is already on SP4. It will however cause scheduling nightmares to make sure there is whatever 24hr coverage is necessary for that program since each employee will only have one 24hr day per week.

3 Likes
#994

So, earlier I was asked for my input

4 day duty week standby hours, currently the 26 hours a week is limited to two days, do you prefer it be split over 3 days say 19 19 18 10, why would you want to screw the employees?

Yes, there is an operational issue for the historical program positions. Right now it’s all over the map, some work 4 days and some work 3. Hopefully they all end up on a 3 day which is L2881’s goal, but management will be management so if they stay on a 4 day remember who did it, it’s not L2881. How does the employee who is ultimately assigned to the 3 day work other than the unit approved shift pattern 1 so they can actually work when the public or program needs the (Monday to Friday). 8.9 maybe?

Fuels Crews, they were created for a specific mission. They are full time employees and the classification’s assigned are consistent with the created mission. Yes the majority of the employees on Fuel Crews are assigned to MOU 8.4 and are 40 hour employee’s . If they are on a 3 day, what would the 40 hour employees duty week be 15 15 10? The crews were designed to be a fixed module and fortunately L2881 inserted language to prohibit the crews from working weekends as their normal days which is what management wanted. If it wasn’t full time BU 8 positions fulfilling this specific mission, who would be doing the work for the State, Private Contractors?

As far as A vs B, both programs have benefits that complement the other mission. Without A their is a possibility that the B side wouldn’t be working 24 hour shifts, there are a lot of Bean Counters that would like to see 5 day work weeks and less year round work force. You need to think about the impact to proposed changes.

If the MOU is ratified, for those of you with ideas and concepts, I highly recommend that over the next 2 years, you step up your game and become part of the solution by writing Resolutions to provide direction for the Negotiation team for the 2026 MOU. We are in the process right now for Resolutions to be submitted for the January Union Convention. Directions on resolutions are found in the Union By-laws, which can be found on the Member side of the L2881 website. Please review the 1500 section to ensure you are not duplicating directions that already exist.

And if you think you are the answer to what you have represented and proclaimed as your expertise to the L2881 negotiation process on this web page, now is your chance to step up your game and quite hiding behind an anonymous webpage and announce your candidacy for the next negotiation team which be selected at the L2881 Convention in January per the Union By-Laws!!

It’s pretty easy to figure out who I am as my handle is my name.

I could go on and on but I will stop here.

4 Likes
#995

And there it is. The L2881 way. If you want it, change etc, do it yourself you freeloading paying dues members. Take what is offered. If it’s not what you want then take time away from your family and do it yourself. This is what’s wrong with our union.

1 Like
#996

Rogue14

The members are the Union. Didn’t ask anyone to have to do it on their own!! All I offered is the available processes to become part of the solution to alleviate the perceived issues. It’s easier to sit outside and throw barbs which is what you’re professing as I read your comment.

So I will ask, who are you? Are you in Bargaining Unit 8 and a member, or are you a CalFire Manager!!

5 Likes
#997

Why is your family time more important than that of our union officers?

2 Likes
#998

I haven’t seen anyone here suggest FTs or 8.4 at all be placed on a 3 day. From what I gather, the problem is the FAE and FC will still be on a 4 day and still be working the exact same scheduled hours as before the TA. So essentially nothing changes for them at all. They’ve gained nothing out of this.

Hopefully there aren’t people in here complaining that work isn’t being done by 2881 and I understand your point that others should step up if they think they have solutions. However dues paying members should be able to express concerns, ask questions, and expect clarity and transparency before they feel they can make an informed vote. SP4 is coming up because there is no explanation for any it even exists whatsoever, but it is an option for the majority of classifications and programs. So I think it’s fair to ask what exactly it is doing there after being told the goal was SP1 for all. Does that not seem reasonable?

3 Likes
#999

SP 4 Is the department ensuring the state that no extra costs are associated with fuel’s treatment programs by going to a 3 day WW.
It’s a fail safe that projects are being completed.
“Acres treated”

1 Like
#1000

As previously mentioned on this page, the MOU ratification process has started. If you are a member and want to exercise your right to vote, attend one of the 80 plus MOU ratification meetings in the state so you can get your questions answered. A member of the Negotiating team will either be physically present or on zoom at every MOU Ratification Meeting. You can go to any meeting in the state and exercise your right to vote.

The meeting dates and locations can be found on the Union website.

2 Likes
#1001

I am am active dues paying BU8 CALFIRE employee with 25 years in this department who has had 4 days off in the last month. Why does it matter? Does a first year FF1 not have the same rights? Why is it that every time you union guys start taking a beating online you throw that card out? We are working our buts off and paying for a service. If you dont want to do it anymore then quit. If you have time and are want to be involved with the union good for you, I appreciate it. Don’t shove it down our throats when the honest, difficult discussions/questions start happening. It never ends up well for the union when this enters the discussion.

5 Likes
#1002

You’re not paying for “a service” that’s where you have it confused. You are paying for a membership. A membership that you are a part of. Your union officers families and personal lives are no less important than your own. They volunteer countless hours to fight for the privileges we ALL benefit from. Your view of what a labor union is supposed to be is heavily skewed.

2 Likes
#1003

Glad as you say you are member, unfortunately this website leaves who you are ambiguous and quite frankle , if you are not a BU8 member quite frankly those comments don’t mater! Thank you for your service. I’ve been there and done that for more years than you, and most likely I spent what time off I got meeting the members needs in the various Union Office’s I held for over 40 rears.

While we are the only Bargaining unit that stipulates that to vote you do it at a Meeting where you have had the opportunity to ask “ALL” of your questions and get them answered!! Every other Bargaining Unit wants to know what you got. Sometimes conversations are left better said in a Member Meeting and not posted on a public site.

If needed, ratification meetings will be held for members at Incident bases so they are not left out of the process.

3 Likes
#1004

Spin it however you’d like, much like the TA we union members have different interpretations of what our membership/union dues pay for. I’m not paying to be in a club, I’m paying for advocating for better terms, pay, conditions of our employment. Across the board. Just happy my Costco membership doesn’t require me to work for them on my day’s off too.

1 Like
#1005

Your Costco membership gives you nothing more than access to buy more from them. If that’s comparable to what you get from 2881 in your eyes, then I don’t know what to tell you. I think you and many others need some serious education on what a labor union is and how it operates. The amount of entitlement spewing from you is unreal. This union has made leaps and bounds, especially in recent history. You should be ashamed of yourself for acting the way you are.

10 Likes
#1006

Absolutely, CF is pricing themselves out of the Schedule A market. Went from the cheapest alternative straight to the most expensive, except in the urban centers. If LG has a cheaper option (which is almost any other agency) they will switch if they can. It’s already started. It’s possibly still cheaper to contract with CF than to create a whole new department (Chief, admin staff, etc) but a contract with another LG agency will probably be less.

2 Likes
#1007

This is what we (not me I voted No) get for passing the agreement 2 years ago. This was my chapters concern of voting on an agreement that we didn’t have the details for. Shame on us to be pressured into agreeing to something that said we Shall do this with our knowing what this was. It’s too late now.

2 Likes
#1008

Why would the question of " what is the purpose of SP4?", need to be asked in a private meeting? All the other shift patterns have a clear purpose and are detailed in the TA. SP4 is left blank and very ambiguous. It being blank and being told the answer shouldn’t be posted on a public site would lead most to believe something is being intentionally omitted for fear of members casting a no vote if the truth was clearly explained. Seems like something is being hidden. If it’s not than why not let everyone know?

3 Likes