HI-Maui-Lahaina ???

[ghost7]

A distinct set of challenges await communities and individual building owners responding to natural disasters, but those affected are not alone or without resources. In the wake of a disaster event, physical and institutional frameworks allow immediate, decisive, and coordinated action toward recovery. For cities, organizations, and homeowners preservation-integrated disaster plans are indispensable for the survival of these resources and the larger community. The resources below can help building owners plan ahead and respond quickly and effectively in order to minimize property damage and ensure a safe return home.
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PDF (informational) Fire Safety In Historic Buildings

[milehighbar]

Once the emergency efforts stabilize, the multi year effort to rebuild will be a logistical challenge just to get the materials and equipment in place on the island, let alone the workforce. Rough.

[Birken_Vogt]

A perspective from another forum. He says former ag lands around town have been allowed to run wild along with invasive weeds. And then we get this, alignment of ignition, wind, and wooden town.

https://www.electriciantalk.com/threads/fire-on-front-street.297603/page-2#post-5628545

[FSFF]

I would recommend hearing Daniel Swain’s early perspective on it as well. Very informative. https://www.youtube.com/live/c62VoJqaEgw?feature=share

[pyrogeography]

Abandoned ag lands/rural flight is a huge problem in Spain, too. As country folk have moved to the cities, lands which never had fire problems because they were grazed down to the nub are burning. Wait a minute, that sounds like Butte County!

[ghost7]

Kula. FB chat guestimations around 40 structures destroyed.

Update 8/13: Upcountry Fire, NYT relaying that officials have a count of 16 structures destroyed in Kula and 3 structures destroyed in Olinda.

[Normbc9]

I have a firefighter friends there. He told me it is very wind driven and flames remind him of the Panorama fire in North Park in 1981

[trishaswcfirewx]

I would like to apologize to everyone on this thread and the forum for my stupid post about fires on the wrong island. I’m very sorry!

[Ballofire]

As I remember it, those lands which has now turned to weeds were either in sugar cane or more likely (on the dry side) pineapple.
Those big ag companies now grow in less costly locales around the world. Leveraged buy-outs were at the root of it. It is all about those pennies per pound of product saved. And now the communities pay. And we all pay in taxes and lost culture. The hidden costs…the billions… are no longer hidden.
And how are the hedge funds?
And where are the business school professors who teach those tactics?
The hidden side of everything.

[pyrogeography]

Looking at the Maxar imagery of where at least one of the Lahaina fires started and spread, it looks like a lot of its initial spread to the south took place across old ag lands. I’m assuming the terracing in the images was from ag…
Looks like a lot of the initial spread to west and NW was into the urban area pretty quickly.

Google Earth Engine shows cropping on east side of Lahaina thru the 1980s.

Google Timelapse

[wfapdude]

Is it just me or are “we” trying to go “cancel culture” over who/how each species of grass/brush got on the islands? At this point who cares. We’re not going to learn anything “new” from it and i’m sure we’ve seen the same thing in other locations around the globe. Hopefully those who aren’t in the business can understand that gale force winds immediately pushed that fire into the #StructureFuelModel. The primary carrier wasn’t the grass/brush it was the structures with all the exploding flying palms & roofs, fences, propane tanks, etc… >=97th Percentile event…

[FireGuy1985]

Let’s get back to the actual incident….USAR teams have been deployed from California and now headed to Maui.

Any word on Cal Fire sending resources?
Feds (Aside from FEMA)?
OES?
Any other resources from other states?

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[Twigpig]

Are you talking Cal Fire engines? Because it’s likely many Cal Fire folks have gone as overhead or on USAR teams. OES has sent USAR and tech rep people. Safe to say that there will be no Cal Fire IMT as they are too expensive for a Federal mission and no engines flown over as there really isn’t much fire left. USAR and overhead have deployed from various locations on the West Coast. It’s a recovery operation.

[BlueZebra]

Washington and Oregon have sent USAR type resources, including a lot of canine resources. California has as well.

[DozerLine]

I don’t believe it would be fair to call this placing blame or cancel culture. But there are some simple hard facts for folks to grasp. Fact 1. Any ground that was used as agricultural ground when abandoned becomes a fuel bed of fuels that when burning in wind are uncontrollable. 2. The fires ignited and were uncontrollable by the point they reached structures, after building enough heat to make buildings burn like brush.
This happens everywhere else where we are accustomed to damaging fires. Lands and fuels that are unmaintained are a hazard to surrounding communities. I don’t care who owns it or what the fuel model may be.
So people are angry these lands once irritated and maintained were abandoned. Damaging a beautiful community in an irreparable fashion and killing people.

[bootstrap]

Maybe fastest fix is greenbelt around communities. Pick an example… Simi Valley comes to mind.

[pyrogeography]

I don’t think the species is the big deal, just the changes in culture that have taken active management out of the picture. Whether you’re talking about neglected timberlands or abandoned pineapple plantations, the absence of management has increased hazards. I think it’s worth talking about because a lot of people just want to yell CLIMATE CHANGE and leave it at that, when there’s a lot more to what’s driving these big fires.

[ghost7]

Compounding factors, in no particular order:

1. Unimproved lands around the town.
2. A 80+mph blow that appears to have caught resources on scene by surprise by its intensity.
3. Down-mountain winds that blew off all the smoke, compressed right over the town and waterline, fed O2 into the flames and propagated embers into everything.
4. A high percentage of non-residents and tourists who were probably unaware of the risk and how to evac.
5. There is also an eyewitness account of an evacuating vehicle getting hit by a falling utility pole and trapping the occupants inside, possibly blocking the road and contributing to panic. It may have been safer to just abandon cars on the highway with the waterline so close.
6. Tuesday was the first day of school and local families may have been preoccupied.
7. Blinding conditions due to high intensity winds and flying debris.

[Ballofire]

You are right Pyrogeo. These are ecosystems rural, urban, and WUI. Everything works together. There are reasons that there are mine reclamation laws…we are all effected when they are not reclaimed. Same thing with Ag land, timber, and urban neighborhoods. It all works together.

Suppression is great but we have to get ahead of these problems or they will keep repeating faster and faster. We are just talking pre-fire management and trying to get it paid for in a fair and effective way.

This fire happens to have taken a member of my extended family. (Not a fire fighter.) And as I have recently regarding other incidents, I knew far too many of the people who have a brick or a stone in the memorial garden at NIFC. These things are heavy.

[ajohansson]

They were in mop up stage correct? fire contained in the am and then blew out later that day. Any small hotspot left on that thing just spread by 80mph gusts. Have you seen the videos of power poles just bending in the wind. Perfect storm. Its the marshall and camp fire.